Moving downtown.... Need some help with tough decision....

[jeffvb9]

Just came across this great forum.  Lots of great information on here...

Will be moving downtown in a few short weeks.  Looked at a ton of places both loft and condo in all areas of town.

I have narrowed my choices down to the Coffee Lofts and The Manhattan.  I have reserved a place at each.  Obviously the loft is ready right now but the condo at the Manhattan wont be ready for about 4 months. 

I am having troubles trying to decided because both of these are so different.  The Manhattan is about $33K cheaper than the loft and wouldnt need any work to it after its completed.  In the Coffee Lofts I would need to replace the appliances and counter tops.

The Manhattan has some very very nice amenities like limo service, indoor pool, hot tub, martini bar, etc and includes 2 parking spaces.  There really isnt any amenities at the lofts and I have to pay an extra $60/month for parking.  Although they are waiving the first year HOA fees.  The lofts made me an offer on a 1BR/den loft that is crazy good.  They dropped the price on one of their units about $23K to get it into my budget.  Anyway its a tough call as I like the loft look and feel but the condo is very nice as well just on a smaller scale.

Anyone with any advice/comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

[DaveKCMO]

one thing to consider... subflooring. some of the older brick buildings have wood subflooring and you can hear EVERYTHING above you. manhattan is concrete, which has different issues, but i've found it to be far less disruptive. is the place in the manhattan 1BR or studio?

also, the difference in neighborhoods really comes down to preference. QH is established, but kinda sleepy. "east village" is still a little on the seedy side, but is poised for a complete makeover. both have good access to P+L and river market.

[moderne]

The 2 attached covered parking space will increase the value of your unit at the Manhattan now and in the future.  Already the costs of the spaces has gone up from developers and only will continue to increase.  Right now the Garment District has more of a neighborhood feel, but East Village is soon to start just a block from the Manhattan.  There are also some great views from the upper floors on the southwest corners.

[jeffvb9]

The Coffee Lofts are cement floors like the Manhattan.

I have one of the 2 bedrooms reserved at the Manhattan on the 12th floor (3 floors down from the penthouse level) on the NE corner (Not the best view in the building but I like the view of the river market area and off to the east). 

I just dont think the Coffee Lofts offer enough amentities but I do like the location and the loft is over 1000 SQ FT.

Both have positives and negatives obviously but I think there is more money to be made in the long run with the Manhattan.  As you said the condo is appreciating as we speak.  They just sold out of their 2 bedrooms yesterday.

[DaveKCMO]

I have one of the 2 bedrooms reserved at the Manhattan on the 12th floor (3 floors down from the penthouse level) on the NE corner (Not the best view in the building but I like the view of the river market area and off to the east). 

that view is much better at night!

[smitherton]

The Coffee Lofts are great! There is little noise between units.  I hear very little from my neighbors and I know for a fact that one of them has a lot of "get to-gethers" I will admit that the amenities are a little lacking, but the location is great. You got the Red Dragon and The Phoenix on the same block, and a nice cafe as well.

[FangKC]

The Manhattan apartment will be done when you move into it, and you can just enjoy your life. Once the East Village is completed, and established, the Manhattan apartment will be in a more desirable neighborhood, and will likely increase in value at a much faster rate than otherwise.

The questions to ask yourself are: are you a pool and hot tub user? How often will the martini bar be a hangout?  The two parking spaces are a major advantage--especially if you have a mate move in.  Is the parking secured at both places? Is the parking garage part of the Coffee Lofts complex, or is it privately-owned, and has a deal with the loft?   If privately-owned, you have to consider that you will have to pay for parking fee increases over the years.

If you opt for the Coffee Lofts, be prepared to increase your intake of coffee. Truly, the whole neighborhood always smells of coffee, and creates a sort of Pavlovian craving for it.

While you have to replace counter tops and appliances, you will be able to select the type and color you want.  What is the efficiency rating on the Manhattan appliances?  You might be able to find more efficient appliances for Coffee Lofts that will cut long-term utility costs.

Do both apartments have dishwashers, garbage disposals, and icemakers?  I realize they have been renovated, but a few years back when I looked at the Pinnacle Tower (now the Manhattan), the apartments didn't have garbage disposals or dishwashers, and the kitchens didn't have much cabinet space.  A dishwasher and garbage disposal are big helps in day-to-day living.  The best part of having a dishwasher is that you have a place to hide dirty dishes instead of the sink. Think about your habits.  When I lived in NYC after moving from Phoenix, I gave up having a dishwasher for several years. I hated it because I hate doing dishes by hand.  I always dreaded coming home to look at a sink full of dirty dishes.

The other major consideration is space. The Coffee Lofts are larger, and over time, one always needs more space.   Will you feel cramped at the Manhattan in a couple of years?  This is especially true if you tend to collect things. What if a mate moves in with you?  Will the Manhattan apartment create the feeling that you are on top of each other?  The Coffee Lofts space will probably feel less cramped if another person lives with you.

The other consideration is that the Manhattan feels like a regular apartment; whereas there are only so many authentic lofts in the City. They aren't really making new ones that have the same ambiance and historic feel to them.  There is a cache to lofts that traditional apartments just don't have.

One must also consider heating and cooling costs.  While larger, will the Coffee Lofts space be more expensive to heat and cool?  I would check with the utility company and get some idea of past bills.  Larger windows might mean more heat-loss. Do the Coffee Lofts have the old-fashioned windows or more efficient replacements.  That can make a big difference in the cost of heating and cooling.

This is a little thing, but it's important in this day and age of gadgets, appliances, computers, and electronic technology.  Count the number of electrical outlets in both apartments, and note their spacing.  Are there going to be enough for all of your electric appliances (TVs, stereos, video gamebox, TIVO, DVD/VCR, clocks, computer, printer, air filtering machine, scanner, phones, fans, lamps, microwave, blender, toaster, coffee maker, George Foreman grill)?  For example, I have two aquariums. Each requires four outlets (light, water filter, heater, and air bubble pump). Thus, I have power strips on every available outlet, and still wish I had more outlets.  I want to set up another aquarium, but don't have the necessary outlets to accommodate it.

When the Manhattan and Coffee Lofts were built, the demand for electric outlets was probably 1/4th of today's needs.  So in the renovation, and rewiring, did they add additional outlets?  My apartment on Quality Hill was built after 1984, and I still don't have enough electrical outlets.  Back then, most people didn't have home computers and their peripherals, and one didn't require an electrical outlet for cordless phones.  So, access your appliance needs, and you will know if you are going to end up with extension cords and power strips crowding the few outlets you have.

With parking and potential higher heating/cooling costs, will the Coffee Loft apartment cost more each month than the Manhattan?

Imagine your furniture in both apartments.  Visualize which fits best with what you have. Think of future desires.  Is the bedroom big enough for the four-poster bed you might want, or will the oversized couch you have overwhelm the living room, and leave no room for additional chairs?  IF you only have room for the couch, where are guests going to sit while you are sprawled out on the couch watching a movie?

Finally, what is the laundry situation?  Do both apartments come with their own washer and dryer; a laundry room on-site; or will you have to go to a laudromat?   It's a HUGE amenity to have your own washer and dryer in your apartment. One that you will come to appreciate more and more as you live there. You can do laundry while you clean, and don't have to worry about clothing theft, or having your clothes dumped on a table in the laundry room if you are tardy getting to them. Having a dryer in the apartment is very convenient if you need to get wrinkles out of an un-ironed shirt quickly--especially if one is getting ready for work. It's certainly going to be a more important amenity day-to-day than having a pool or hot tub, or martini bar onsite.

[jeffvb9]

FANGKC ---->  WOW

Thats a fantastic post I must say!  You bring up some very very good points that I never thought about.  I will get this all together and post again.  I really appreciate your feedback.

[FangKC]

FangKC is older and has much experience with apartment living. 

The thing I forgot to mention is common fees.  What are the homeowner association fees for each apartment?  Consider that in the total cost analysis and compare what you are getting with each (pool, security, fitness center, doorman, parking, common utilities like heating/cooling).  If you are someone who receives a lot of mailed packages (ebay freak), a doorman to accept and lock up your packages delivered while you are at work, is a great amenity. 

UPS leaves packages at my building on the front stoop along Washington--in the open and obvious to any passersby, in a heavily pedestrian area.  A few months back, I had some reprints of bank checks delivered by UPS and they were lost.  I had to close my bank account.

[kuwolde]

The lofts made me an offer on a 1BR/den loft that is crazy good.  They dropped the price on one of their units about $23K to get it into my budget.  Anyway its a tough call as I like the loft look and feel but the condo is very nice as well just on a smaller scale.

If you don't mind Jeff, about how much is it going to be for you to get into the Coffee House Lofts?  I looked at some of the Soho lofts in the area and really liked them a lot.

[jeffvb9]

FangKC is older and has much experience with apartment living. 

The thing I forgot to mention is common fees.  What are the homeowner association fees for each apartment?  Consider that in the total cost analysis and compare what you are getting with each (pool, security, fitness center, doorman, parking, common utilities like heating/cooling).  If you are someone who receives a lot of mailed packages (ebay freak), a doorman to accept and lock up your packages delivered while you are at work, is a great amenity. 

UPS leaves packages at my building on the front stoop along Washington--in the open and obvious to any passersby, in a heavily pedestrian area.  A few months back, I had some reprints of bank checks delivered by UPS and they were lost.  I had to close my bank account.

At the Coffee Lofts the HOAs are free (usually around $220/mo) for the first year and do not cover electricity.  At the Manhattan HOA fees are around $320/mo but all utilities are included.

The Manhattan has a 24hr concierge while the Coffee Lofts do not.

[jeffvb9]

If you don't mind Jeff, about how much is it going to be for you to get into the Coffee House Lofts?  I looked at some of the Soho lofts in the area and really liked them a lot.

Around $185K.  They are going to pull the carpeting and polish/seal the cement floors if I like for free as well.

[smitherton]

At the Coffee Lofts the HOAs are free (usually around $220/mo) for the first year and do not cover electricity.  At the Manhattan HOA fees are around $320/mo but all utilities are included.

The Manhattan has a 24hr concierge while the Coffee Lofts do not.

When you live on the east side a concierge is almost necessary. . . . The garment district, not so much.

[moderne]

  Yea doormen, a major expense for Holiday gratuities.  Not to mention the housekeepers and maintenance men.

[KCPowercat]

Just from the condos I've seen opening lately, beware of some of the "amenities"...they tend to be cut quickly when home owners realize they could save $40/month without a limo service (for example)

[Tosspot]

Maybe I'm revealing my proletarian roots here, but who in blue hell needs a limo service anyway?

[jeffvb9]

Well its a hell of a lot better then driving home drunk from the plaza, for example.  If I am paying for limo service I expect to use it.  Also I go out of town quite a bit and it will be nice to have a limo taking/picking me up from the airport.

[Beermo]

Maybe I'm revealing my proletarian roots here, but who in blue hell needs a limo service anyway?

you're not a prole, you're just broke and you hate the government. in the real world it's called blue-collar.

people who need a limo are the people who can't ride a bike without crashing it every week.

[kard]

you're not a prole, you're just broke and you hate the government. in the real world it's called blue-collar.

people who need a limo are the people who can't ride a bike without crashing it every week.

you just described two different Tosspots!  (kidding, Toss!)

[Beermo]

you just described two different Tosspots!  (kidding, Toss!)

actually the first line was describing a guy named eric. the second line was about a guy named tosspot and his goofy, but lovable friend beccanator.