Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DaveKCMO]

Where can we see the rough notes, or is this the summarization of those notes?

https://kccrossroads.org/proposed-baseball-stadium/

Raw survey results coming after it closes tomorrow.

[TheUrbanRoo]

This whole thing is just way too much about the Royals when it needs to be about the Chiefs

[KCPowercat]

This whole thing is just way too much about the Royals when it needs to be about the Chiefs

I think by April you are going to be sick of seeing the Chiefs portion

[Anthony_Hugo98]

…any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…

This is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.

[KCPowercat]

…any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…

This is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.

Ehh it's obviously not the same situation but it's pretty common for non-attendees of a certain event to avoid that area when one of those events is going on because it's assumed it will be "too busy" in the immediate surrounding area, especially in a city like KC. Thinking of a place like Tannin where people would be like "well royals are in town, that will be annoying, let's go somewhere else"

[Anthony_Hugo98]

…any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…

This is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.

Ehh it's obviously not the same situation but it's pretty common for non-attendees of a certain event to avoid that area when one of those events is going on because it's assumed it will be "too busy" in the immediate surrounding area, especially in a city like KC. Thinking of a place like Tannin where people would be like "well royals are in town, that will be annoying, let's go somewhere else"

Very true, but that won’t be the perception forever. It’ll eventually just becoming something people deal with if it becomes the norm. It may have some novelty for the first month or two, or maybe the first season, but it likely wouldn’t continue far past that.

[GRID]

The parking is a lie. We've been handling sold out arena shows combined with sold out other events on the same days with everyone finding parking for almost 15 years.

The parking is not a "lie". Two seemingly conflicting things can be true. Downtown can have an unreasonable over-supply of parking. That is true. At the same time, street parking in the East Crossroads can be completely packed on event nights and Fridays and Saturdays, even without a baseball stadium. This is also true.

Sure, someone going to an event at T-Mobile Center that's having trouble finding parking will find a parking spot wherever they can and go to the event. Someone going to a bar that has trouble finding parking can just decide to go to a different bar.

Beyond parking, any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example, all of the big wigs were out there talking about how busy local businesses were going to be and they were going to make a killing. Whereas, the reality was that all the locals avoided downtown like the plague that weekend and anyone going to the draft spent their money inside the Draft area. It'd be the same thing, anyone not going to a Royals game isn't going to go to the Crossroads when the Royals are in town. And, even the businesses that do cater to baseball fans are going to be dead from 7-10pm while the game is happening.

These are very legitimate concerns and acting like a business owner whose business and employees are threatened shouldn't be shown a little grace is disappointing.

Very good post and all true. Do you have ideas on how to deal with this while also supporting a stadium? I can't remember if you are against this location or not.

[GRID]

The KC Current parking thing is going to be the nail in the coffin for this stadium. Jesus. First the shooting at the parade and now everybody thinks it will cost at least $50 to park. What next?, a family accidentally drives their SUV off the top of a downtown parking structure?

The Current stadium will be a mess till the area is more developed and has parking structure and the streetcar opens. When those happen, there will be plenty of affordable and never free options to park for that stadium. In the mean time, the Current should do what it takes to get the cost for parking down to a reasonable price.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Very true, but that won’t be the perception forever. It’ll eventually just becoming something people deal with if it becomes the norm. It may have some novelty for the first month or two, or maybe the first season, but it likely wouldn’t continue far past that.

Potentially. My point is not to say that this problem can't be overcome or won't be the case forever but definitely something a local business owner has to be weighing right now. And, with the low margins of certain industries, they may not have time to wait for that day.

I mean, think about an event space for example. Are brides going to want to book a year+ in advance not knowing if the Royals will be in town that night and if that will cause a mess for their guests? Will event spaces need to secure hundreds of parking spaces to alleviate that concern? Or will there just stop being event spaces in the Crossroads because spring/summer weddings become too difficult to book?

[GRID]

For the record, I often drive to events in DC and Baltimore at Cap One arena, Camden Yards, Nats Park and tons of other very urban theaters and venues.

I can't remember the last time I paid more than $20 to park. Most of the time it's $10-20 and it's often free or partially free. And this is in a city with almost no "visible" parking lots or structures. You only see garage entrances and street parking.

[KCPowercat]

Crossroads stadium is not riverfront. Deep breaths

[GRID]

Crossroads stadium is not riverfront. Deep breaths

That's my point. That's why I mentioned what I pay to park because that will be more similar to what it will cost to park for a downtown stadium. But the general public equates $50 at Current stadium and a Royals stadium anywhere downtown as the "same thing".

[DColeKC]

The parking is a lie. We've been handling sold out arena shows combined with sold out other events on the same days with everyone finding parking for almost 15 years.

The parking is not a "lie". Two seemingly conflicting things can be true. Downtown can have an unreasonable over-supply of parking. That is true. At the same time, street parking in the East Crossroads can be completely packed on event nights and Fridays and Saturdays, even without a baseball stadium. This is also true.


These are very legitimate concerns and acting like a business owner whose business and employees are threatened shouldn't be shown a little grace is disappointing.

How many times do I need to say something before it's listened to? I've said it about 20 different ways that there will be losers in this and that it's a sad reality. I've tried to preface dozens of times that by not kowtowing to this specific business owner, I'm not trying to not have empathy. She's got thousands of people to bite on her social media, she doesn't need me. She does in fact have some legitimate concerns, no disagreement there and she can stick to those things as her reason why this should happen while leaving the misinformation out of it.

As for parking, she's very clearly trying to imply that downtown is a complete cluster fuck when there's a t-mobile event in regards to parking. This is comical and wildly inaccurate. Now, if she's specifically talking about parking for her business during peak times I can't speak to that but I'd utilize a educated guess and assume she doesn't have any promised or dedicated parking for her customers and her customer only. The normally free parking lots may turn into paid parking for event nights. Regardless, her implication that parking downtown during a big event night, "isn't here" is a lie.

[Highlander]

The parking is a lie. We've been handling sold out arena shows combined with sold out other events on the same days with everyone finding parking for almost 15 years.

Beyond parking, any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example, all of the big wigs were out there talking about how busy local businesses were going to be and they were going to make a killing. Whereas, the reality was that all the locals avoided downtown like the plague that weekend and anyone going to the draft spent their money inside the Draft area. It'd be the same thing, anyone not going to a Royals game isn't going to go to the Crossroads when the Royals are in town. And, even the businesses that do cater to baseball fans are going to be dead from 7-10pm while the game is happening.

These are very legitimate concerns and acting like a business owner whose business and employees are threatened shouldn't be shown a little grace is disappointing.

While that's true, it's true of almost every special event. Why hold an NCAA tourney in KC or the B12 Tourney? It would be true if downtown were to gain several major 1000+ employers in the next couple of years or KC started becoming a convention town again. It's true but it is kind of immaterial. It's almost like saying an economically healthier downtown would hurt some people. If that's really a concern, we never should have started talking about a downtown stadium in any capacity at all whether East Village or the Crossroads.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

While that's true, it's true of almost every special event. Why hold an NCAA tourney in KC or the B12 Tourney? It would be true if downtown were to gain several major 1000+ employers in the next couple of years or KC started becoming a convention town again. It's true but it is kind of immaterial. It's almost like saying an economically healthier downtown would hurt some people. If that's really a concern, we never should have started talking about a downtown stadium in any capacity at all whether East Village or the Crossroads.

An East Village stadium would have almost zero negative effect on Crossroads businesses or really any businesses. Same goes for North Loop to a lesser extent or WSP. All those sites are insulated from negatively impacting small businesses in different ways. The Crossroads site is not insulated at all. It's directly impacting dozens of businesses and will have spin-off impacts to a large part of the Crossroads.

I'm not saying that we can't get to a point where the impact is a net positive but the Royals have chosen the site with the highest possible bar to get to that point.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

How many times do I need to say something before it's listened to? I've said it about 20 different ways that there will be losers in this and that it's a sad reality. I've tried to preface dozens of times that by not kowtowing to this specific business owner, I'm not trying to not have empathy. She's got thousands of people to bite on her social media, she doesn't need me. She does in fact have some legitimate concerns, no disagreement there and she can stick to those things as her reason why this should happen while leaving the misinformation out of it.

I don't want to devolve this thread into a critique of how you write about things but you only ever offer these "prefaces" seemingly as a means to make yourself not sound like an asshole, not because you actually care or believe them. If you did, you wouldn't be posting time after time about how a small business owner defending her business and employees isn't being factual enough for you. Like, somebody with empathy doesn't need to "try" to have empathy.

[Highlander]

While that's true, it's true of almost every special event. Why hold an NCAA tourney in KC or the B12 Tourney? It would be true if downtown were to gain several major 1000+ employers in the next couple of years or KC started becoming a convention town again. It's true but it is kind of immaterial. It's almost like saying an economically healthier downtown would hurt some people. If that's really a concern, we never should have started talking about a downtown stadium in any capacity at all whether East Village or the Crossroads.

An East Village stadium would have almost zero negative effect on Crossroads businesses or really any businesses. Same goes for North Loop to a lesser extent or WSP. All those sites are insulated from negatively impacting small businesses in different ways. The Crossroads site is not insulated at all. It's directly impacting dozens of businesses and will have spin-off impacts to a large part of the Crossroads.

I'm not saying that we can't get to a point where the impact is a net positive but the Royals have chosen the site with the highest possible bar to get to that point.

Maybe for people familiar with downtown. Those unfamiliar probably don't know enough to know how far the "hassle" from a game extends.

But the rest of my post is really about how all the things many of us wish for (greater employment, more housing, more events, conventions etc...) is going to lead to an economically healthier downtown and city and those too will bring the same issues that are being thrown around here as reasons for not having a stadium: Greater hassle, displacement of businesses, businesses differentially impacted, some residents displaced, traffic, more corporate/less organic restaurants and bars etc..

[Cratedigger]

…any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…

This is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.

Ehh it's obviously not the same situation but it's pretty common for non-attendees of a certain event to avoid that area when one of those events is going on because it's assumed it will be "too busy" in the immediate surrounding area, especially in a city like KC. Thinking of a place like Tannin where people would be like "well royals are in town, that will be annoying, let's go somewhere else"

"Nobody goes to that place anymore, it's too busy"

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Maybe for people familiar with downtown. Those unfamiliar probably don't know enough to know how far the "hassle" from a game extends.

But the rest of my post is really about how all the things many of us wish for (greater employment, more housing, more events, conventions etc...) is going to lead to an economically healthier downtown and city and those too will bring the same issues that are being thrown around here as reasons for not having a stadium: Greater hassle, displacement of businesses, businesses differentially impacted, some residents displaced, traffic, more corporate/less organic restaurants and bars etc..

Is anyone in this thread actually arguing against a downtown stadium? Don't mistake legitimate criticism and a desire for better with outright opposition to the concept. Like, are we really just supposed to take the Royals' first draft and run with it, no critiques?

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Maybe for people familiar with downtown. Those unfamiliar probably don't know enough to know how far the "hassle" from a game extends.

But the rest of my post is really about how all the things many of us wish for (greater employment, more housing, more events, conventions etc...) is going to lead to an economically healthier downtown and city and those too will bring the same issues that are being thrown around here as reasons for not having a stadium: Greater hassle, displacement of businesses, businesses differentially impacted, some residents displaced, traffic, more corporate/less organic restaurants and bars etc..

Is anyone in this thread actually arguing against a downtown stadium? Don't mistake legitimate criticism and a desire for better with outright opposition to the concept. Like, are we really just supposed to take the Royals' first draft and run with it, no critiques?

Nah, our complaints are granular as compared to the wider social media commentary against the stadium. We’re arguing over color splotches by comparison.