https://kccrossroads.org/proposed-baseball-stadium/
Raw survey results coming after it closes tomorrow.
https://kccrossroads.org/proposed-baseball-stadium/
I think by April you are going to be sick of seeing the Chiefs portionTheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:33 pm This whole thing is just way too much about the Royals when it needs to be about the Chiefs
This is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pm …any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…
Ehh it's obviously not the same situation but it's pretty common for non-attendees of a certain event to avoid that area when one of those events is going on because it's assumed it will be "too busy" in the immediate surrounding area, especially in a city like KC. Thinking of a place like Tannin where people would be like "well royals are in town, that will be annoying, let's go somewhere else"Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:35 pmThis is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pm …any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…
Very true, but that won’t be the perception forever. It’ll eventually just becoming something people deal with if it becomes the norm. It may have some novelty for the first month or two, or maybe the first season, but it likely wouldn’t continue far past that.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:46 pmEhh it's obviously not the same situation but it's pretty common for non-attendees of a certain event to avoid that area when one of those events is going on because it's assumed it will be "too busy" in the immediate surrounding area, especially in a city like KC. Thinking of a place like Tannin where people would be like "well royals are in town, that will be annoying, let's go somewhere else"Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:35 pmThis is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pm …any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…
Very good post and all true. Do you have ideas on how to deal with this while also supporting a stadium? I can't remember if you are against this location or not.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pmThe parking is not a "lie". Two seemingly conflicting things can be true. Downtown can have an unreasonable over-supply of parking. That is true. At the same time, street parking in the East Crossroads can be completely packed on event nights and Fridays and Saturdays, even without a baseball stadium. This is also true.
Sure, someone going to an event at T-Mobile Center that's having trouble finding parking will find a parking spot wherever they can and go to the event. Someone going to a bar that has trouble finding parking can just decide to go to a different bar.
Beyond parking, any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example, all of the big wigs were out there talking about how busy local businesses were going to be and they were going to make a killing. Whereas, the reality was that all the locals avoided downtown like the plague that weekend and anyone going to the draft spent their money inside the Draft area. It'd be the same thing, anyone not going to a Royals game isn't going to go to the Crossroads when the Royals are in town. And, even the businesses that do cater to baseball fans are going to be dead from 7-10pm while the game is happening.
These are very legitimate concerns and acting like a business owner whose business and employees are threatened shouldn't be shown a little grace is disappointing.
Potentially. My point is not to say that this problem can't be overcome or won't be the case forever but definitely something a local business owner has to be weighing right now. And, with the low margins of certain industries, they may not have time to wait for that day.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:59 pm Very true, but that won’t be the perception forever. It’ll eventually just becoming something people deal with if it becomes the norm. It may have some novelty for the first month or two, or maybe the first season, but it likely wouldn’t continue far past that.
That's my point. That's why I mentioned what I pay to park because that will be more similar to what it will cost to park for a downtown stadium. But the general public equates $50 at Current stadium and a Royals stadium anywhere downtown as the "same thing".
How many times do I need to say something before it's listened to? I've said it about 20 different ways that there will be losers in this and that it's a sad reality. I've tried to preface dozens of times that by not kowtowing to this specific business owner, I'm not trying to not have empathy. She's got thousands of people to bite on her social media, she doesn't need me. She does in fact have some legitimate concerns, no disagreement there and she can stick to those things as her reason why this should happen while leaving the misinformation out of it.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pmThe parking is not a "lie". Two seemingly conflicting things can be true. Downtown can have an unreasonable over-supply of parking. That is true. At the same time, street parking in the East Crossroads can be completely packed on event nights and Fridays and Saturdays, even without a baseball stadium. This is also true.
These are very legitimate concerns and acting like a business owner whose business and employees are threatened shouldn't be shown a little grace is disappointing.
While that's true, it's true of almost every special event. Why hold an NCAA tourney in KC or the B12 Tourney? It would be true if downtown were to gain several major 1000+ employers in the next couple of years or KC started becoming a convention town again. It's true but it is kind of immaterial. It's almost like saying an economically healthier downtown would hurt some people. If that's really a concern, we never should have started talking about a downtown stadium in any capacity at all whether East Village or the Crossroads.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pmBeyond parking, any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example, all of the big wigs were out there talking about how busy local businesses were going to be and they were going to make a killing. Whereas, the reality was that all the locals avoided downtown like the plague that weekend and anyone going to the draft spent their money inside the Draft area. It'd be the same thing, anyone not going to a Royals game isn't going to go to the Crossroads when the Royals are in town. And, even the businesses that do cater to baseball fans are going to be dead from 7-10pm while the game is happening.
These are very legitimate concerns and acting like a business owner whose business and employees are threatened shouldn't be shown a little grace is disappointing.
An East Village stadium would have almost zero negative effect on Crossroads businesses or really any businesses. Same goes for North Loop to a lesser extent or WSP. All those sites are insulated from negatively impacting small businesses in different ways. The Crossroads site is not insulated at all. It's directly impacting dozens of businesses and will have spin-off impacts to a large part of the Crossroads.Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:52 pm While that's true, it's true of almost every special event. Why hold an NCAA tourney in KC or the B12 Tourney? It would be true if downtown were to gain several major 1000+ employers in the next couple of years or KC started becoming a convention town again. It's true but it is kind of immaterial. It's almost like saying an economically healthier downtown would hurt some people. If that's really a concern, we never should have started talking about a downtown stadium in any capacity at all whether East Village or the Crossroads.
I don't want to devolve this thread into a critique of how you write about things but you only ever offer these "prefaces" seemingly as a means to make yourself not sound like an asshole, not because you actually care or believe them. If you did, you wouldn't be posting time after time about how a small business owner defending her business and employees isn't being factual enough for you. Like, somebody with empathy doesn't need to "try" to have empathy.DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:30 pm How many times do I need to say something before it's listened to? I've said it about 20 different ways that there will be losers in this and that it's a sad reality. I've tried to preface dozens of times that by not kowtowing to this specific business owner, I'm not trying to not have empathy. She's got thousands of people to bite on her social media, she doesn't need me. She does in fact have some legitimate concerns, no disagreement there and she can stick to those things as her reason why this should happen while leaving the misinformation out of it.
Maybe for people familiar with downtown. Those unfamiliar probably don't know enough to know how far the "hassle" from a game extends.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:02 pmAn East Village stadium would have almost zero negative effect on Crossroads businesses or really any businesses. Same goes for North Loop to a lesser extent or WSP. All those sites are insulated from negatively impacting small businesses in different ways. The Crossroads site is not insulated at all. It's directly impacting dozens of businesses and will have spin-off impacts to a large part of the Crossroads.Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:52 pm While that's true, it's true of almost every special event. Why hold an NCAA tourney in KC or the B12 Tourney? It would be true if downtown were to gain several major 1000+ employers in the next couple of years or KC started becoming a convention town again. It's true but it is kind of immaterial. It's almost like saying an economically healthier downtown would hurt some people. If that's really a concern, we never should have started talking about a downtown stadium in any capacity at all whether East Village or the Crossroads.
I'm not saying that we can't get to a point where the impact is a net positive but the Royals have chosen the site with the highest possible bar to get to that point.
"Nobody goes to that place anymore, it's too busy"KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:46 pmEhh it's obviously not the same situation but it's pretty common for non-attendees of a certain event to avoid that area when one of those events is going on because it's assumed it will be "too busy" in the immediate surrounding area, especially in a city like KC. Thinking of a place like Tannin where people would be like "well royals are in town, that will be annoying, let's go somewhere else"Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:35 pmThis is a pretty disingenuous false equivalency. A sealed and secure single weekend event that caters primarily to out of town guest exclusively for that event with all associated programming is definitely not the same as local baseball fans attending a game.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:11 pm …any business that doesn't cater to baseball fans that's open during the evening will be screwed by this. Look at the NFL Draft as an example…
Is anyone in this thread actually arguing against a downtown stadium? Don't mistake legitimate criticism and a desire for better with outright opposition to the concept. Like, are we really just supposed to take the Royals' first draft and run with it, no critiques?Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:12 pm Maybe for people familiar with downtown. Those unfamiliar probably don't know enough to know how far the "hassle" from a game extends.
But the rest of my post is really about how all the things many of us wish for (greater employment, more housing, more events, conventions etc...) is going to lead to an economically healthier downtown and city and those too will bring the same issues that are being thrown around here as reasons for not having a stadium: Greater hassle, displacement of businesses, businesses differentially impacted, some residents displaced, traffic, more corporate/less organic restaurants and bars etc..
Nah, our complaints are granular as compared to the wider social media commentary against the stadium. We’re arguing over color splotches by comparison.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:30 pmIs anyone in this thread actually arguing against a downtown stadium? Don't mistake legitimate criticism and a desire for better with outright opposition to the concept. Like, are we really just supposed to take the Royals' first draft and run with it, no critiques?Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:12 pm Maybe for people familiar with downtown. Those unfamiliar probably don't know enough to know how far the "hassle" from a game extends.
But the rest of my post is really about how all the things many of us wish for (greater employment, more housing, more events, conventions etc...) is going to lead to an economically healthier downtown and city and those too will bring the same issues that are being thrown around here as reasons for not having a stadium: Greater hassle, displacement of businesses, businesses differentially impacted, some residents displaced, traffic, more corporate/less organic restaurants and bars etc..