TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:30 am
The Royals late September stadium decision is coming up soon now. I wonder if we will start to see any leaks in the following week?
Tough decision but it's going to NKC.
Actually not kidding.
Source?
I just can't see it. The vast majority of citizens and/or financial players all either want it downtown or to stay at Truman. There's just no appetite for NKC as the location, except from one family. I just can't see that being enough. Heads would roll. The NIMBY "keep my K" folk hate it because it's change, & the downtowners hate it because it's not urban. There's just not enough base support for it from literally anybody outside like 1% of the people.
The public official reaction up north vs down south has been night and day. The East Village renderings were produced two years ago and the NKC ones were produced in July. Plus you'd have the Merrimans backing the development of the district as well and they have the money to get things done. VanTrust has proven to just sit on land. You also have a campaign-in-waiting in NKC as proven recently. All signs hypothetically point to the Royals going with NKC.
A NKC stadium will be far better than the current situation because it's closer to population. NKC continues to be on a pretty solid trajectory to support such a stadium and associated development+ influx of fans coming to the games. Work will be required to make things go smoother, but it is entirely possible.
If the Royals run with NKC, people who wanted it to go downtown will eventually come around to having it closer by than where it currently is. I could see the NKC Streetcar being constructed faster as a result. It's a perfect storm and the way I could see the campaign going to win over the public up there, I think it'd win a majority support on election day.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 1:38 am
A NKC stadium will be far better than the current situation because it's closer to population. NKC continues to be on a pretty solid trajectory to support such a stadium and associated development+ influx of fans coming to the games. Work will be required to make things go smoother, but it is entirely possible.
If the Royals run with NKC, people who wanted it to go downtown will eventually come around to having it closer by than where it currently is. I could see the NKC Streetcar being constructed faster as a result. It's a perfect storm and the way I could see the campaign going to win over the public up there, I think it'd win a majority support on election day.
We'll know in the coming weeks.
I understand the logic but I just can't see it. Not at first. I believe if the vote fails in Jackson they'll for sure go to Clay, but after 20 years of downtown development & streetcar line right there it just wouldn't make any sense for Sherman to not take the land next to all *that*.
I atleast think downtown will get the first shot at it.
Another thing I've been thinking is...who rushes to get out of their lease early and do all this pressure on the Chiefs to hurry up just to move to North KC. It's gotta be for downtown. Nobody would be that desperate to hustle just to go to the Clay site. Just my 10,000 foot view.
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:30 am
The Royals late September stadium decision is coming up soon now. I wonder if we will start to see any leaks in the following week?
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:30 am
The Royals late September stadium decision is coming up soon now. I wonder if we will start to see any leaks in the following week?
Tough decision but it's going to NKC.
Actually not kidding.
I believe it. Quinton Lucas and Frank White have an adversarial relationship and you have a council that kowtows to all the anti-developer noise coming from KCPS/KC Tenants/etc. It also doesn't help the Frank White will not take phone calls from the Royals org. For someone with a sports background, that man is not a team player at all. Pick up the dang phone and return calls man!
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:30 am
The Royals late September stadium decision is coming up soon now. I wonder if we will start to see any leaks in the following week?
Tough decision but it's going to NKC.
Actually not kidding.
I believe it. Quinton Lucas and Frank White have an adversarial relationship and you have a council that kowtows to all the anti-developer noise coming from KCPS/KC Tenants/etc. It also doesn't help the Frank White will not take phone calls from the Royals org. For someone with a sports background, that man is not a team player at all. Pick up the dang phone and return calls man!
We just got a whole new council last month. They’re much better than the old one. How is this new set of council anti-development?
Also, White seemed to start talking after the firestorm
I believe it. Quinton Lucas and Frank White have an adversarial relationship and you have a council that kowtows to all the anti-developer noise coming from KCPS/KC Tenants/etc. It also doesn't help the Frank White will not take phone calls from the Royals org. For someone with a sports background, that man is not a team player at all. Pick up the dang phone and return calls man!
We just got a whole new council last month. They’re much better than the old one. How is this new set of council anti-development?
Also, White seemed to start talking after the firestorm
Seems like extending the 3/8 cent sales tax that currently funds the TSC would be a far easier hill to climb opposed to Clay Country needing to pass an entirely new incentive. And Clay Country residents have been fairly vocal according to polls that they do not want it. The tax, not the stadium.
I might be crazy, but I could see the Clay County sales-tax request being lower than Jackson County because a localized sales-tax being placed on the district to fund infrastructure maintenance. The County sales-tax would go towards the initial infrastructure enhancements and re-working of the roads in the surrounding area to accommodate the traffic. It's also likely that the sales tax could be linked with enhancements to public parks, schools, and more as another way to entice people into support it.
If my scenario becomes a reality, I could see it winning the vote up north. The Shermans and Merrimans make money from their stadium district, North KC gets a ton of new tax revenue, and the County-wide sales tax slowly fades away as the revenue generated within the special taxing district would take over the maintenance obligations in the future.
When they released all those new renderings and did nothing what so ever to improve the EV renderings after having a year of public feedback, I think it was pretty obvious that NKC had moved into being the preferred location.
And that does suck. But I guess it's better than the location they have now.
I still don't see much development happening in EV though. It's taken 15 years to build a few towers near the P&L district and each of those towers has like 25-30 million in incentives. And very little else substantial has happened outside of the heavily subsidized P&L District. The areas east of Grand have less buildings today than it did before the arena went in. There are parking lots right no Grand next to the arena now going on 15 years of sitting empty.
I just don't see the public or city hall getting behind the idea of giving incentives to develop EV after the Royals promised they were going to build it. And very little is going to get build there without major incentives and it will take decades. I'm just being realistic.
But the NKC site is way too suburban looking. The stadium looks okay. But that suburban lowrise stuff is much more likely to get built than downtown highrises which is another reason I see this going to NKC.
Unbelievable that Jackson County has let them take the Royals. They should all be forced to resign for this. Like it's basically malpractice to give the Royals away over some short term pettiness. This is a very very dark turn for downtown too after 20+ years.
chingon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:22 pm
HAs there been an announcement or are you just doom-posting?
Also, the NKC location is fine. Big miss for KCMO, but as far as having baseball in the city it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Mentally preparing for the inevitable announcement in a couple weeks that will kill the winds out of the sails of downtown for a long time.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.
chingon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:22 pm
HAs there been an announcement or are you just doom-posting?
Also, the NKC location is fine. Big miss for KCMO, but as far as having baseball in the city it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Mentally preparing for the inevitable announcement in a couple weeks that will kill the winds out of the sails of downtown for a long time.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.
How is this even a real city if every sports franchise is willingly choosing to go suburban over the downtown. Sporting KC wants to be in Wyandotte. The Chiefs want to stay out in Raytown. The Royals want to go to Clay County now.
KC is quite literally the only metro in the country where none of the teams will go into the city. Hell, even in Wichita a resident can go see sports downtown. This isn't the 70's anymore where they followed suburban trends and got stuck there. This is all 3 of the franchises in the 21st century choosing this. No other city in the country, not even the shitholes or the farmtowns, has this problem. Unbelievable.
Last edited by TheUrbanRoo on Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chingon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:22 pm
HAs there been an announcement or are you just doom-posting?
Also, the NKC location is fine. Big miss for KCMO, but as far as having baseball in the city it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Mentally preparing for the inevitable announcement in a couple weeks that will kill the winds out of the sails of downtown for a long time.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.
Well it won't kill downtown but it certainly could accelerate development downtown. It's an instant fill in of a good portion of the East Village area. I guess if the stadium goes to NKC (which I believe would be a huge mistake for KC due to how seldom these opportunities come about), KC could at least start doing what it takes to fill in the east side of downtown. Then, maybe in 2-3 decades, there would be a modicum of development there. I think that's why a downtown stadium is so critical.
chingon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:22 pm
HAs there been an announcement or are you just doom-posting?
Also, the NKC location is fine. Big miss for KCMO, but as far as having baseball in the city it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Mentally preparing for the inevitable announcement in a couple weeks that will kill the winds out of the sails of downtown for a long time.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.
This. I want it downtown because, I just want it downtown. But it actually might be better for downtown for it to be in NKC. I know that doesn't make sense.
Mentally preparing for the inevitable announcement in a couple weeks that will kill the winds out of the sails of downtown for a long time.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.
This. I want it downtown because, I just want it downtown. But it actually might be better for downtown for it to be in NKC. I know that doesn't make sense.
I want it downtown because I want a reason to go downtown. I don't want to go downtown, have a beer or dinner and then get back into a car (because there will be no walking option) and drive to NKC and watch a game. It's not all that different than driving to downtown for dinner and driving to TSC. The NKC just doesn't make sense to me. It's a drive to only option. If the stadium is downtown, anyone who lives around the Plaza or midtown or Westport has the option of taking the streetcar downtown and going to a game.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.
This. I want it downtown because, I just want it downtown. But it actually might be better for downtown for it to be in NKC. I know that doesn't make sense.
I want it downtown because I want a reason to go downtown. I don't want to go downtown, have a beer or dinner and then get back into a car (because there will be no walking option) and drive to NKC and watch a game. It's not all that different than driving to downtown for dinner and driving to TSC. The NKC just doesn't make sense to me. It's a drive to only option. If the stadium is downtown, anyone who lives around the Plaza or midtown or Westport has the option of taking the streetcar downtown and going to a game.
If it goes to NKC, then a streetcar or LRT route to the stadium needs to happen very soon after the stadium opens. I think LRT to KCI will make a lot more sense and northland voters would support it if the stadium were in NKC.
I know rail to the north would also work if the stadium were downtown, but I do think it would happen much faster if the stadium were in NKC.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There are some pretty good arguments that downtown would be better off without it. I think it would be a net positive but I certainly don't think not having the stadium changes downtown's momentum one iota.