Socialism and capitalism are not well defined boxes with a discrete sense of values and characteristics. They are end members with no country in the world being purely capitalistic and very few countries being purely socialistic. Social security and Medicaire are absolutely much further down that scale towards socialism. And many of Trump's supporters acknowledge that; many want to end social security but they almost all want their benefits. Norway has socialized medicine, high tax rates, very high minimum pay,and taxes on what they considered excessive savings but companies were private and worked off the principles of capitalism although they were highly restricted in how they treat employees (very difficult to layoff etc....). Some folks would not call them a socialist country due to private ownership of companies but they were much further down the road in that direction than the US (and they also enjoyed an extremely high quality of life).DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:47 pmMost people don't understand the difference between entitlement programs and socialist type programs. Social security and medicare are not socialism, so those old folks yelling they don't want socialism but don't want the programs they paid into, worked a certain time to receive and isn't contributed to by the government makes perfect sense. Also, collecting taxes to pay for public services like the police and fire department isn't remotely close to socialism either.Major KC Fan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:46 am That demographic would be angry old people that scream “socialism” in one breath & then scream “keep your hands off my Medicare & SOCIAL Security”. If they really don’t want to participate in socialism they should refrain from using those programs along with using the police, firefighters, government-funded highways & streets, etc......Never ceases to amaze (and sadden) me how ill-informed many people are that vote against their own self-interests.
Too bad it’s not a requirement that everyone be exposed to a basic civics class at some point in their lives. Math and science requirements alone can’t prevent the social stupidity that’s evident on a daily basis. Case in point the late-night TV hosts that periodically do “on the streets” interviews with the general public and ask basic civics questions that we all should know.
COVID19
- Highlander
- City Center Square
- Posts: 10238
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
- Location: Houston
Re: COVID19
-
- Ambassador
- Posts: 7463
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Re: COVID19
IS there anything in our constitution that defines what type of economy we have to run? Other than arguments like "the constitution doesn't expressly forbid..." or "by article XX that would be considered overreach by the federal government".
Seams like we are a democracy (ish) and can make the economy whatever we want it to be.
There is nothing inherently constitutional or Christian about a strictly capitalistic model.
Seams like we are a democracy (ish) and can make the economy whatever we want it to be.
There is nothing inherently constitutional or Christian about a strictly capitalistic model.
- KCtoBrooklyn
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:01 pm
Re: COVID19
Is there a single thing that Trump has done in his first 4 years that makes you think he has any interest in being more of a centrist? Some people made the same claim before 2016 - including Republicans that feared he was a secret Democrat. If anything, before the election would be the time for Trump to appear more moderate in attempt to attract independent voters.
Trump has no interest in gaining acceptance/approval from the masses. He would rather have adoration from his small cult. If anything, he would get more extreme after the election. I think his main focus would be retribution against his perceived enemies, as well as anything he can do to line the pockets of his family and friends.
He might care about his legacy, but not if it means achieving it through centrist legislation. He would rather focus on some useless vanity project, or something military related.
-
- Strip mall
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 am
Re: COVID19
There's not an explicit capitalism provision, no. But to the extent that the government would need to get increasingly involved in the regulation of private entities, that involvement would need to be reasonably tied to a power granted to it by the Constitution. There have been Supreme Court cases over the years that push the boundaries of this concept, but this is still generally the case.
However, if private entities self-regulated into a capitalism-lite or other type of economic framework (probably not realistic due to the nature of for-profit companies), then they would technically be free to do so.
- DColeKC
- Ambassador
- Posts: 3956
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am
Re: COVID19
No, but he understands his only chance for re-election is by playing to his base, nothing... and I mean nothing at this point in time is going to sway independents or undecideds to vote for him. He needs every single republican and conservative.KCtoBrooklyn wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:40 pmIs there a single thing that Trump has done in his first 4 years that makes you think he has any interest in being more of a centrist? Some people made the same claim before 2016 - including Republicans that feared he was a secret Democrat. If anything, before the election would be the time for Trump to appear more moderate in attempt to attract independent voters.
Trump has no interest in gaining acceptance/approval from the masses. He would rather have adoration from his small cult. If anything, he would get more extreme after the election. I think his main focus would be retribution against his perceived enemies, as well as anything he can do to line the pockets of his family and friends.
He might care about his legacy, but not if it means achieving it through centrist legislation. He would rather focus on some useless vanity project, or something military related.
I think his ego is so insanely large that he would totally dump on the very people who got him elected by trying to pass major legislation. Imagine if he were the one to finally fix immigration and the healthcare situation. He would brag about it until the day he died. That's what he wants, something to brag about for the final years of his life. The economy was going to be that thing, but that got butt f'd by covid.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18359
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: COVID19
According to ABC News:
38,672 new cases in the USA in the past 24 hours.
Cases rising in 29 states.
CDC estimated there are probably 10 cases of COVID for every case reported. CDC says 80 percent of infected could be asymptomatic.
33,000 lives could be saved by fall if Americans just wore masks.
Texas governor puts the brakes on reopening the state. Texas Medical Center's ICU is at capacity. Eighteen members of one family in Texas were infected. Three members of another family died in 10 days.
Florida reports more than 5,000 new cases in one day.
The EU may ban travel from the USA over our COVID infection rate.
38,672 new cases in the USA in the past 24 hours.
Cases rising in 29 states.
CDC estimated there are probably 10 cases of COVID for every case reported. CDC says 80 percent of infected could be asymptomatic.
33,000 lives could be saved by fall if Americans just wore masks.
Texas governor puts the brakes on reopening the state. Texas Medical Center's ICU is at capacity. Eighteen members of one family in Texas were infected. Three members of another family died in 10 days.
Florida reports more than 5,000 new cases in one day.
The EU may ban travel from the USA over our COVID infection rate.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18359
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: COVID19
There are conservatives that have left him, and are working against him, i.e. The Lincoln Project, Scaramucci.DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:49 amNo, but he understands his only chance for re-election is by playing to his base, nothing... and I mean nothing at this point in time is going to sway independents or undecideds to vote for him. He needs every single republican and conservative.
Some who worked in the Trump White House have stated they will not vote for him: Scaramucci, Bolton, etc.
Polls are showing that Biden is catching up with Trump in support from white men, which was Trump's strongest demographic.
Polls are showing that suburban women who voted for Trump are leaving him in droves.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18359
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8519
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
- Location: milky way, orion arm
Re: COVID19
^When you have an incompetent leader that bashes people for wearing masks and wants to [reduce testing so the numbers appear lower]...
- DColeKC
- Ambassador
- Posts: 3956
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18359
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: COVID19
According to ABC News:
The USA hits a new record high in COVID cases -- 44,000 in the last 24 hours.
CDC estimates 10 times more Americans are likely infected than official numbers reveal.
Nearly 9,000 new cases in Florida in the last 24 hours. Texas 5,700 new cases. Florida pausing plans for reopening. Florida suspends drinking in indoor bars.
Houston raised its COVID alert to the highest level.
Governors say young people are driving up the numbers.
Arizona pumping brakes on reopening. 25 percent tested in Arizona have the virus.
WH holds first COVID briefing in almost two months.
Hospitalizations on the rise in 21 states.
SF delaying reopening of hair and nail salons.
In California, 30 members of one family have become infected.
American Airlines will resume full flights.
EU will ban most US travelers starting next week.
The USA hits a new record high in COVID cases -- 44,000 in the last 24 hours.
CDC estimates 10 times more Americans are likely infected than official numbers reveal.
Nearly 9,000 new cases in Florida in the last 24 hours. Texas 5,700 new cases. Florida pausing plans for reopening. Florida suspends drinking in indoor bars.
Houston raised its COVID alert to the highest level.
Governors say young people are driving up the numbers.
Arizona pumping brakes on reopening. 25 percent tested in Arizona have the virus.
WH holds first COVID briefing in almost two months.
Hospitalizations on the rise in 21 states.
SF delaying reopening of hair and nail salons.
In California, 30 members of one family have become infected.
American Airlines will resume full flights.
EU will ban most US travelers starting next week.
-
- Parking Garage
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:16 am
Re: COVID19
No kidding. Wish we had media that didn't have a political agenda. Just give us hospitalizations and ICU capacities and let us use our own intelligence.
- grovester
- Oak Tower
- Posts: 4586
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
- Location: KC Metro
Re: COVID19
You guys looked at the positive rate lately?
Being defensive is going to get us in trouble.
Being defensive is going to get us in trouble.
- grovester
- Oak Tower
- Posts: 4586
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
- Location: KC Metro
Re: COVID19
ie give us some lagging indicator that we can point to for the next 4 to 6 weeks until reality catches up with us.beermestrength wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:20 pmNo kidding. Wish we had media that didn't have a political agenda. Just give us hospitalizations and ICU capacities and let us use our own intelligence.
-
- Parking Garage
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:16 am
Re: COVID19
Here is a website that gives a lot of good info including ICU Bed Availability.
https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/?fbcl ... cvbx7aMptw
https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/?fbcl ... cvbx7aMptw
- grovester
- Oak Tower
- Posts: 4586
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
- Location: KC Metro
Re: COVID19
^Thanks, that is a pretty good site.
Risks of misleading state stats on hospitalizations:
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/0 ... tions.html
If KC was maxed out they wouldn't airlift you to St. Louis.
Risks of misleading state stats on hospitalizations:
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/0 ... tions.html
If KC was maxed out they wouldn't airlift you to St. Louis.
- KCtoBrooklyn
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:01 pm
Re: COVID19
If the increase in cases was due to an increase in testing, then the positive test rate would be dropping and would be lower than most other countries. Neither of those are the case.
The positive test rate was dropping through April and May as testing was ramped up and lockdowns slowed the spread, but the rate has quickly been rising. I see one source saying the 7 day average positive rate was 5.8% on Jun 25th. I see another saying 6.6% for current 7 day average (the low was 4.4% in early June). Compare this to the positive rates in other countries like Italy - 0.5%, Germany - 0.9%, France - 1.5%, UK - 1.8%, Japan - 1.1%, South Korea - 0.4%. It is clear that the amount of testing is not to blame for the high number of cases.
The situation is worse is certain states. Arizona is over 22% positive, which means they are severely under-testing. Florida and Texas are both around 14%.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18359
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: COVID19
According to ABC News:
Today's milestone: more than 10 million infected, more than 500,000 deaths worldwide.
California, Texas, and Florida are pausing reopening plans. The California governor has shut down state's bars again.
In California, more younger people are being hospitalized.
In Florida, infections are being seeded by young people according to that state's governor.
8,577 new cases in Florida today.
More than 5,300 new infections in Texas, and the state has 5,500 hospitalizations.
Today's milestone: more than 10 million infected, more than 500,000 deaths worldwide.
California, Texas, and Florida are pausing reopening plans. The California governor has shut down state's bars again.
In California, more younger people are being hospitalized.
In Florida, infections are being seeded by young people according to that state's governor.
8,577 new cases in Florida today.
More than 5,300 new infections in Texas, and the state has 5,500 hospitalizations.
-
- Parking Garage
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:16 am
- DColeKC
- Ambassador
- Posts: 3956
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am
Re: COVID19
Could this be because people who have been exposed or feel sick are getting tested? I mean it's not like many people who feel great are just going out and getting tests, something is causing them to get one done. Obviously young people are contracting it the most right now, which explains the lower hospitalization rate. At what point do we encourage the older folks and high risk folks to stay at home and make sure we have the financial resources for them available, not the perfectly health 20 year olds that can go back to work? I understand the argument is "senior citizens shouldn't be second class citizens" but something is going to have to give for us to get through this.KCtoBrooklyn wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:22 pmIf the increase in cases was due to an increase in testing, then the positive test rate would be dropping and would be lower than most other countries. Neither of those are the case.
The positive test rate was dropping through April and May as testing was ramped up and lockdowns slowed the spread, but the rate has quickly been rising. I see one source saying the 7 day average positive rate was 5.8% on Jun 25th. I see another saying 6.6% for current 7 day average (the low was 4.4% in early June). Compare this to the positive rates in other countries like Italy - 0.5%, Germany - 0.9%, France - 1.5%, UK - 1.8%, Japan - 1.1%, South Korea - 0.4%. It is clear that the amount of testing is not to blame for the high number of cases.
The situation is worse is certain states. Arizona is over 22% positive, which means they are severely under-testing. Florida and Texas are both around 14%.