Comments for the architects about P&L District design

[eliphar17]

I will collect comments you all have and pass them on to the project manager at 360 Architecture for the P&L District. Anything and everything you want to say about the design (not tenants, timelines, or other stuff), say it here.

Renderings (11/30/04):
http://www.kcskyscrapers.com/kcforum/vi ... php?t=4416

[ComandanteCero]

hmm, well i think other people have pointed out some of the more obvious problems that may arise, like not making the residential component all look alike and trying to keep the whole district from feeling too plastic or homogenous. I think that even though the initial buildings along 14th street that will hold the retail/restaurants will not have a residential or office component above them, wouldn't it be possible to design the buildings in such a way that in the future additional levels could be easily added? I understand the fact that there is no market for those components right now, but i don't really think a rivermarket scaled district is what the downtown needs. If atleast the buildings were designed in such a way as to allow for future vertical additions the district could easily and quickly capitalize on a burgeoning downtown population. Maybe i'm too much of an optimist, but i really think downtown will boom, and i'd much rather see constructive additions on existing buildings than relatively new buildings being torn down to make way for a new development (or just buildings that stayed around for 50 years never adding to density). Anywho, so yeah, if there were a way to guarantee a future height addition (i'm sure there are engineers and architects who do that kind of thing, aren't there?). 2nd biggie is trying to add green design principles into the buildings. If there is no way to do some height addition mechanism then atleast make the tops of the buildings green. It would be great if the entire district met the LEED Silver standard, ok i know that's dreaming right now, but it would be a GREAT statement for the city's image and principles.

[tat2kc]

yup, make the buildings different, so it doesn't look like it was built all at once. Also, make sure that the entire space is using universal design, so that it is easily accessible to those with disabilities.

[KCPowercat]

someone else mentioned this but let the retailers have some control over the streetscape in the fronts of their stores. That could help make the area feel unique. I'm sure I'll have others.

Oh, fountains, make sure there are some unique fountains.

[rxlexi]

Do everything possible to create a unique KC feel, short of falling back on exceptionally cheesy ideas. I don't know exactly how to do that with a very modern theme, but be creative . If at all possible, please avoid the 1-2 story buildings seen in the first few renderings; I'd like to see 3-5 story buildings as much as possible, with as little open space as possible per the Cordish plans.

I don't like the idea of a large "performance area" courtyard type of thing....at least add interesting elements (a fountain would work well here, or bording restaurants/shops) to generate some traffic and life when nothing else is going on. Adding green space to the buildings would be neat, as would the implentation of plenty of bike locks, perhaps near parking areas. Create as much density with as little parking as you're allowed to do. Throw at least one of two really creative designs in there with the rest of the 'manufactured' look buildings. Definetely roll with the idea of technology and light and 'modern'.

Please don't do faux-retro, please don't recreate other Cordish developmentes in KC, please don't drop Zona Rosa into the South Loop. Build something here that will last for decades and become a cherished new city district, not a 'quick fix' for a blighted downtown.[/b]

[macnw]

Think about this. Isn't Cordish going to build on what has been successful in other downtowns. To me, if I were a business like Cordish, I would feel better about having some type of template. I don't think that means everything needs to be duplicated. But if that involves each district having a festival area, that's ok. As people from KC, we should be responsible for making our areas unique. Either by planning unique events, or building upon successful ideas in our community

[Tosspot]

Make the P&L as dense as possible, as befitting what an urban area should be. This means buildings that are more than a mere two or three stories high.

[hermit]

I would prefer if there was a huge barn full of cattle right next to the street.

[KCDowntown]

I would like to see the districit incorporate more small retail spaces. For example, Baltimore between 13th and 14th contains 14 different retail spaces. I think that this will attract a lot of activity into a very small space.

Meanwhile, 14th street from Baltimore to Grand only has 13 different spaces. Granted, 14th street contains larger scale attractions, which will attract more people. However, I believe that a grouping of smaller stores will be more likely to attract constant foot traffic at all times of the day.

Therefore, I think that interspersing smaller, cheaper store space throughout the district will enhance the district's variety and the foot traffic of the district at whole. As the plan is now, the smaller stores are concentrated on Baltimore between 13th & 14th and on the eastern side of Main between 12th and 13th.

I have a feeling it is too late to be bringing this up.

KCDowntown

[aknowledgeableperson]

For those that might remember the old River Quay in the 70's what made that area really nice, especially for live entertainment, was multi-level buildings. You could go up some outdoor stairs to one bar. The steps would be located in a courtyard area. From the front of the building you could enter another bar or maybe some shop. And then maybe go down some stairs from the courtyard to a basement area for another bar. The courtyard could be accessed from the street and may also include an open air bar in nice weather. The courtyard could serve 3, 4, or even 5 buildings. Although the buildings would have brick exteriors each was distinctive from the other by style of brick, window style, color, whatever.

[KCPowercat]

so how do the designers avoid this looking like a mass built 9 block entertainment district and more like something that actually fits into the existing downtown?

I think it's ok to make it feel like it's own downtown neighborhood like we already have with Quality Hill, river market, library district, etc. but what everybody wants to avoid is making it looking like Zona Rosa (for example).

So......how is that done? HAS it been done in a mass built development like this in other cities?

[ignatius]

It would be more expensive but a different architect for each building would help reduce the projecty single-development feel. If it costs up to $10M more to have differing designs from architects of radically differing schools of thought, it would be well worth it. Ten million is less than a 5% increase of the total project cost.

The buildings also need to have different materials... glass, brick, stucco, stone and I'd like to see a little Hispanic edge with those bright earthy tones like....

http://photos.imageevent.com/kcgridlock ... 0_1467.JPG

[KCPowercat]

good example. Thinking about this from Cordish's side, they will kind of want a uniformed district feel I would think.

Would something like the plaza has become be acceptable to most? Is that a good balance between urban district and unique buildings?