The red flag should have gone up when we all saw the phrase "Italian bistro" - that word combination belongs together about as much as "Mongolian Taqueria".trailerkid wrote: i'd agree it's one of the better spaces. so why did Cordish give it to a downgraded-bistro concept of a mediocre Italian chain? There is/was a Bice concept inside the Hilton Suites across from the John Hancock in Chicago that was one of the saddest restaurants i've ever seen in my life. Like P&L's Bice Bistro it was strangely decorated and unoccupied whenever i walked around it to get to the hotel.
Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
The best idea that ever came out of Grinders was Stretch (our TIF commissioner, mind you) arguing with KC(P) about rebuilding the 670 around the Sprint Center so it'd somehow empty into 18th/Oak. That was just epic. I need to find a way to dig that up.beautyfromashes wrote: Seriously, the Grinders crowd drives me CRAZY! It's like anyone who walks in there has to hate anything else in the city that's not on 18th street. Grinders might be the biggest impediment to growth in the city.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
How many years, and subsidy by the city, should it be given in order for final judgment? My comments about it are up to this point in time, not something that is final.KCPowercat wrote: Sorry but 2 years is still early to judge it....
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
I am not saying it is not working, it is just not working the way many expected it to work or performing up to its full potential.KCPowercat wrote: Ok so those who claim its not working.....what is your standard that would change your opinion to say its a success?
One of the problems I see is that with all of the money put into the project one would expect a bigger bang than what is present now. Even before the year 2003 the CVB talked about the need of an "entertainment/shopping district" to attract conventions, and that is after a ballroom was approved that was needed to attract conventions. Well, as one knows for the most part the convention business locally is craps and now the talk is we need a 1,000 room convention hotel.
Another problem is the lack of local residential support, not that the local don't support it now - there just isn't enough of a local population to support it.
A major problem was just the way the project was sold to the public. If the council had gone to the voters to issue general obligation bonds instead of using TIF then the current tax subsidy wouldn't be an issue, which probably creates most of the ill feelings by KCMO citizens. Also, I would say that many expected this project to be the high dollar free agent home run hitter or the high dollar free agent 20 game winner the local team signs that would it to the playoffs and only 15 HR's are hit or only 10 games are won - not bad just not what was expected for the money.
Judge it to be a success? OK, a plus to the city's budget instead of it receiving a subsidy. Something that is not just a hotspot for the younger crowd but something that also draws the oldsters time and time again and not just because of a downtown event. Judge it like you would the Plaza.
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
Before it got to "run down" "tired" status Italian Gardens was one downtown restaurant that did draw people from all over, over and over.mean wrote: Assuming you mean what would make the dining scene a success, personally all I want is for just one of the restaurants to be good enough that I would want to eat there regularly. Just ONE of them be good enough to drive significant traffic in from Blue Springs and Grain Valley and Olathe on a Tuesday when there isn't some kind of event. I would be happy enough with that. That's what I thought we'd be getting. I, apparently foolishly, believed we might even get a couple. Shame on me.
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
Are you sure about that number?KCPowercat wrote: 120000 people watch soccer on a Saturday on tv kinda proves that out to me.
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
With the Zest chef/management fired as per today's Star...Linda Duerr would be someone good for Cordish to bring to P&L.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
They have already brought in two chef's and failed with both of them. Chef Roth he left the Phillips and was there for about three months if that, and Rob from 1924 and managed to run them out of the "District".trailerkid wrote: With the Zest chef/management fired as per today's Star...Linda Duerr would be someone good for Cordish to bring to P&L.
It would be a very bad disservice to Linda, she deserves way better than the "District".
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
As I recall, one was a consultant, and the other owned a burger stand. Neither platform will really show off a chef. If you were the only name-tied-to-restaurant chef with a restaurant in P&L, there are few places in KC where you could earn national attention faster considering all of the out of town business.butter_breath wrote: They have already brought in two chef's and failed with both of them. Chef Roth he left the Phillips and was there for about three months if that, and Rob from 1924 and managed to run them out of the "District".
It would be a very bad disservice to Linda, she deserves way better than the "District".
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
i'm not talking about her working for Cordish. i'm talking about her having an independent concept.butter_breath wrote: They have already brought in two chef's and failed with both of them. Chef Roth he left the Phillips and was there for about three months if that, and Rob from 1924 and managed to run them out of the "District".
It would be a very bad disservice to Linda, she deserves way better than the "District".
are you really going to say Cordish ran out Rob Dalzell? REALLY?!?!
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
if you plopped down the freighthouse (Grunauer, Lidia's, Jack Stack) in addition to the rumor of Re-Verse along 14th Street I would totally rescind criticism of P&L dining being underwhelming.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
Agreed, although Lidia's suffers due to the mediocre pasta trio thing. The real menu is great, though. I admit that's just being nit-picky. I'd take it in a heartbeat of Bice or whatever.
"It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic." -- Ben Franklin
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
Yeah, I did that 2-3 times under "you've got to get the pasta trio" mantra before realizing that Lidia's is a really fantastic restaurant.mean wrote: Agreed, although Lidia's suffers due to the mediocre pasta trio thing. The real menu is great, though. I admit that's just being nit-picky. I'd take it in a heartbeat of Bice or whatever.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
Yeah. It's really good. I think I prefer Northern Italian food by nature, but I've always felt comfortable saying that b/n Lidia's, Garozzo's, Cupini's, Bella Napoli & Villa Capri in OP, Kansas City has good/outstanding versions of every Italian dining experience I want in a city.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
from Yelp:
Elite '10
Stephanie S.
Sriracha goes with EVERYTHING...
Shrewsbury, MO
7/18/2010
I wish we had something like this in St. Louis!
The power and lights district was an awesome way for me and the boyfriend to end our weekend in KC.
I love the way everything was set up. There is definitely something for everyone here.
I can't really describe it except to say that it was like one huge party! I love it.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/kansas-city-pow ... Xg9OrZ4FtA
Elite '10
Stephanie S.
Sriracha goes with EVERYTHING...
Shrewsbury, MO
7/18/2010
I wish we had something like this in St. Louis!
The power and lights district was an awesome way for me and the boyfriend to end our weekend in KC.
I love the way everything was set up. There is definitely something for everyone here.
I can't really describe it except to say that it was like one huge party! I love it.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/kansas-city-pow ... Xg9OrZ4FtA
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
A KC person just fired back a nasty review:
Maybe KC(P) & Grid are right...tabitha m.
nice gams!
Kansas City, MO
7/18/2010
P&L District would get only 1 star if it didn't remind me of City Walk in LA. During the day, some of the restaurants are tolerable, and the Flying Saucer is basically amazing all the time, but it's on the outside of P&L so... I don't really consider it a part of the district. I just consider it a precious little gem on the outskirts of Hep C Town. I have only been into a few bars at P&L and they all left me wanting to take a bath IMMEDIATELY. I definitely suggest bringing a can of Lysol and some GermX
Every once in a while, the P&L Living Room will have some cool free shows. This past Wednesday we went to see War just for the hell of it. The only bad part is that there was this asshole security guard, that instead of politely asking us not to take pictures, was a total dick and pissed me off bad enough to make me just leave. I also think it's bullshit that there is a dress code. I understand the concept behind it, but it's bullshit.
If you want to get shitfaced, be surrounded by other shitfaced people, and be overcharged by cover charges and drinks, then P&L is for you!
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
That sounds like a positive review....I like to get sh#tfaced....I like flying saucer....they have cool shows....and I HATE people taking pictures of WAR!!
That person just wants to hate it so bad but in reality (s)he still have a lot of positives.
That person just wants to hate it so bad but in reality (s)he still have a lot of positives.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
another person from StL wrote a review today that commented about the lack of retail. said he took a cab to the Plaza after browsing P+L shops.KCPowercat wrote: That sounds like a positive review....I like to get sh#tfaced....I like flying saucer....they have cool shows....and I HATE people taking pictures of WAR!!
That person just wants to hate it so bad but in reality (s)he still have a lot of positives.
it sounded like he was expecting names he'd heard of both in terms of restaurants as well as retail.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
Sounds like he could have just stayed in St. Louis if that's what he was seeking.trailerkid wrote: another person from StL wrote a review today that commented about the lack of retail. said he took a cab to the Plaza after browsing P+L shops.
it sounded like he was expecting names he'd heard of both in terms of restaurants as well as retail.
"It's only when you leave Kansas City do you realize truly how great a city it is. ... If you have to go away, go away for a while. You'll be back. And when you come back, bring your ideas and willingness to make Kansas City the best."- Sly James
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question
i think he meant seeing chains that are quasi unique, but still generally known names (what the Plaza used to be). regardless, going to any city and rejecting stuff you haven't heard of before is fucking dumb.smh wrote: Sounds like he could have just stayed in St. Louis if that's what he was seeking.