Help Finding the "Best" Downtown Neighborhood?

[tella100]

Trying to decide where to live. I have lived in KC on and off for 8 years now and lived on the Plaza most of that time because of the proximity to school,friends, food & drink (that, and I still actually like alot about the Plaza area).  Anyways, I am buying a condo/loft in downtown soon and am looking for input on what people think of the different neighborhoods.

There are about 5 areas/neighborhoods in downtown that I am considering moving to:

(1) River Market (Riverbend, Bridgeworks,523 Grand)
(2) Garmet District (Coffee / Atriums West) 
(3) Library area (21 Ten), 
(4) Crossroads (although I am still searching for something around 200-250K there)

From my perspective the River Market is the most complete and established residential neighborhood in downtown, does that make it the best, I'm not sure.

I am sure this topic has been debated before (I have read the archives pretty extensively) but wanted to see if people wanted to add anything new.

[ComandanteCero]

i think it depends on what your tastes and inclinations are in terms of bustle, community, housing preferences, etc.

[DaveKCMO]

Trying to decide where to live. I have lived in KC on and off for 8 years now and lived on the Plaza most of that time because of the proximity to school,friends, food & drink (that, and I still actually like alot about the Plaza area).   Anyways, I am buying a condo/loft in downtown soon and am looking for input on what people think of the different neighborhoods.

There are about 5 areas/neighborhoods in downtown that I am considering moving to:

(1) River Market (Riverbend, Bridgeworks,523 Grand)
(2) Garmet District (Coffee / Atriums West) 
(3) Library area (21 Ten), 
(4) Crossroads (although I am still searching for something around 200-250K there)

From my perspective the River Market is the most complete and established residential neighborhood in downtown, does that make it the best, I'm not sure.

I am sure this topic has been debated before (I have read the archives pretty extensively) but wanted to see if people wanted to add anything new.

if i had to do it all over again i would have bought at 21 ten at the time (sept. 2003). my crossroads loft is great and the area is reasonably functional after-hours, but that view of the library roof really tempted me... as well as having standard hardwood instead of concrete. i would like to be closer to (but not in) the river market. i don't find myself walking to crown center much, but being close to union station, screenland, and grinder's is very cool... and p&l is only four blocks away. when i was shopping around, the interior of my current loft is what sold me, not the location.

[tella100]

[quote="DaveKCMO"]
if i had to do it all over again i would have bought at 21 ten at the time (sept. 2003). my crossroads loft is great and the area is reasonably functional after-hours, but that view of the library roof really tempted me...

Yes the views from the units and the rooftop there are fantastic. I am only hung by the parking situation (detached across the stree)  & the cost per SF (i.e. its very exspensive).  The units I have looked at 21 Ten all have concrete, which I like but do worry about resale (perhaps concrete floors will quickly go out of style and I would have to put wood floors down to sell the place).

[f4hondaphile]

My take is this: Garment and Library are only separated by three blocks, I would almost lump them together.  Also, both of them are easily walkable to River Market and the things there (quality hill playhouse, upper deck, quaff, tanners, library itsself) are easily walkable to from Rivermarket.  Rivermarket is cool to be right in the middle of a neighborhood that is lively on the weekend during the day but you can easily walk to it from Garment and Library.  So as it comes down to those three, if I were to make the decision it would be driven by the amenties, price, etc of the units available but maybe I am oversimplifying the differences in those locations. 

Crossroads is really cool and up and coming, its a little closer to P&L so that's a plus, and First Fridays are one hell of an amentiy, to walk out your door into a very lively street scene, its what we all want all of downtown to be all the time, but then again its only once a month and five dollar cab ride or a healthy hike from Garment, Library, et al.  Again, I may not be helping much but all of these areas are cool and have their own different neighborhood feel you should go with whichever you personally respond to the most and where you find a condo that fits your budget and style.  Most people have little dealbreakers that are different for everyone, for me its parking-without a garage I won't even consider, as you start looking you may find dealbreakers at some places that I would jump at the chance to own.  So in the end I rambled on for two paragraphs and helped you not at all, your welcome.

[chrizow]

.... its what we all want all of downtown to be all the time, but then again its only once a month and five dollar cab ride or a healthy hike from Garment, Library, et al. 

good post f4.

it's interesting that you mention the Xroads as "quite a hike" from those downtown hoods.  in big cities like Chicago or NYC or San Francisco, that would be just a short trek!  that goes to show you what a more vibrant, dense area can do for you - you can walk 30 blocks before it seems like a really long way.  in KC, a 10 block walk seems like an eternity.

[skim82]

tella100,

All those areas are worth looking into.

I have also tried to find a great place within my budget downtown. Unfortunatley, DT living is getting pricier by the hour, however, that should not be a reason for you to 'settle' for something because you feel you have to.  That's the worst reason to buy. 

After doing a lot of research, and consulting a realtor ( i strongly suggest) I would sum it up this way. 

-the garment district was my favorite, however, the Real Estate Co. that owns much of those buildings including Coffee Lofts, 700 Broadway, Atriums, Fountains, etc. are very wishy washy about the amenities they offer, etc.  That's something you have to be aware of, also, they're having trouble selling those units, and have changed realtors on site... etc.

-the river market is in my opinion the most lively residential area in DT.  The City Market is a great asset, along with the already healthy pop. of residents that already live there.  There are plans by Birt for the Bridgeworks area to include retail and a grocery store, and I believe that Cordish is still in negotiations to buy the land west of Riverbend.  Either way, the River Market is a little oversaturated, however, it seems like a cool place to live.

-Crossroads, honestly don't know too much about it, all i do know is that FirstFridays are awesome, and the view of the skyline can't be beat from there.

-CBD/Library District is cool, however for me, it seemed too.... well, too white-collar and synthetic.  I didn't get a 'neighborhood' feel. 

That's all I got, feel free to PM me if you have any direct questions. 

[KCPowercat]

personally my favorite is becoming the library district.....amenities are coming almost daily and there is constantly activity in the area....and close to the transit plaza. 

Of course, I'll always rep the Hill of Quality too.

[AllThingsKC]

Of course, I'll always rep the Hill of Quality too.

For what it's worth....I have been very happy in Quality Hill.  Unlike being East of Grand in the downtown loop, I feel safe in Quality Hill.  It's upscale, has friendly people, and safer (IMO) since it's mostly a residental area.

[staubio]

River Market oversaturated?  With what?  The River Market probably has the best chance to become the intimate urban village because it is basically filling up all of its space with lofts, small offices or retail.  The curse of the north loop actually serves to isolate the neighborhood a bit, forcing density into a finite area and creating a very distinct identity for the neighborhood. 

If you are talking about immediate area and neighborhood potential, I'd go with River Market.  The CBD will always be the CBD, but the River Market continues to find its character and evolve.

That said, those who indicated that the River Market is very close to other neighborhoods is spot on.  The frustrating thing about the Market is that everything you will walk to is immediately around you or south.  You aren't in the midst of things, surrounded by the skyline, if you are there.  If you live anywhere in the CBD, you might not be right on top of the action, but you are surrounded on all sides by destinations.  Though I don't mind walking, 8 blocks only gets me to 10th street.  If I want to get dressed up and walk to a musical and opera on a hot summer night, it is almost too far.

Right now, no one neighborhood offers enough to keep all of your attention.  You can tie yourself into a smaller area if you are willing to walk for awhile and wait it out.  Otherwise, if you are there to live it up and experience as many different places and have exposure to lots of different developments, go for a central location like 21 Ten or the Garment District.  That especially applies if you are renting.

In any case, you'll love it no matter where you choose and you can always make another move in the future when you spend more time in the neighborhoods.  You'll be all over the place.

[warwickland]

good post f4.

it's interesting that you mention the Xroads as "quite a hike" from those downtown hoods.  in big cities like Chicago or NYC or San Francisco, that would be just a short trek!  that goes to show you what a more vibrant, dense area can do for you - you can walk 30 blocks before it seems like a really long way.  in KC, a 10 block walk seems like an eternity.

haha, i walk (usually bike) to the crossroads from 41st street...

[skim82]

River Market oversaturated?  With what?  The River Market probably has the best chance to become the intimate urban village because it is basically filling up all of its space with lofts, small offices or retail.  The curse of the north loop actually serves to isolate the neighborhood a bit, forcing density into a finite area and creating a very distinct identity for the neighborhood. 

A long time ago, when i was visiting around to different DT properties, I overheard a realtor say that the River Market was oversaturated with lofts, etc.  and that a better investment might be Gillham Row, etc. That's all I heard, for me, i've already made my decision, and have reserved a unit at first and main. 

I personally could care less, because I believe the River Market is the coolest area in KC (besides CcPlaza)

[staubio]

A long time ago, when i was visiting around to different DT properties, I overheard a realtor say that the River Market was oversaturated with lofts, etc.  and that a better investment might be Gillham Row, etc. That's all I heard, for me, i've already made my decision, and have reserved a unit at first and main. 

I personally could care less, because I believe the River Market is the coolest area in KC (besides CcPlaza)

That agent either didn't understand how urban neighborhoods work and that the more housing we get there, the better, or they had some vested interested in Gilham Row.  I'm guessing a little bit of both.

[ComandanteCero]

staub, i think they key part of what the agent said was "investment".  I think people looking to buy a condo and sell within the next 5 years would be considered more investment oriented buyers rather than more "looking to live in the urban core for the long haul" buyers (by that i mean 10+ years).  Not to say they wont' partake in the urban experience, but it seems many realtors and buyers seem to go in seeing downtown living as a short term thing before they move up to a single family house (atleast for younger buyers). 

So, if you're going to buy (instead of renting) for that short period you're probably wanting to see the greatest return on your investment.  In that sense, it wouldn't be that out of line to say the River Market is "saturated" for this cycle in terms of the supply meeting the demand.  Over the long run, the more people the better (and the greater likelihood your investment will bring a great return as the Rivermarket will continue to be one of the more vibrant areas of downtown), but I wouldn't be surprised if in the short term the market enters a small lull as the cycle enters its "valley" (not that prices will drop, but they won't appreciate at the rate we're seeing today).  So the agent might be suggesting he'll see a greater rate of appreciation over the next couple of years in the short run at Gillham.

As to actually comparing the short term return of the RM the Gillham/Union Hill area, i'd say that's a crap shoot.  Once Founder's Hill comes on-line I'm guessing there will be more than enough units to satisfy present demand for a period, but who knows, maybe the people/investment/retail synergy will result in another demand boost for the area (and thus create greater demand than there is supply in the short term and boost prices).  But there's no reason to think that once 2007 rolls around and many of the big projects downtown are completed there won't be a larger influx of people into the area willing to give downtown a try (and i would think that with the Rivermarket being right there it would be one of the first to see the effects of this).

But hey i have no crystal ball, so who knows.  There are a lot of contingencies, and even though something might make sense theoretically, things might not work out that way in real life.

[skim82]

exactly what i meant to say.  good post comandante.

[tella100]

thanks for all the great insight.  After spending more and more time in each place, I find myself liking the RM the best, although I could see myself enjoying anyone of those neighborhoods.

[staubio]

staub, i think they key part of what the agent said was "investment".  I think people looking to buy a condo and sell within the next 5 years would be considered more investment oriented buyers rather than more "looking to live in the urban core for the long haul" buyers (by that i mean 10+ years).  Not to say they wont' partake in the urban experience, but it seems many realtors and buyers seem to go in seeing downtown living as a short term thing before they move up to a single family house (atleast for younger buyers). 

So, if you're going to buy (instead of renting) for that short period you're probably wanting to see the greatest return on your investment.  In that sense, it wouldn't be that out of line to say the River Market is "saturated" for this cycle in terms of the supply meeting the demand.  Over the long run, the more people the better (and the greater likelihood your investment will bring a great return as the Rivermarket will continue to be one of the more vibrant areas of downtown), but I wouldn't be surprised if in the short term the market enters a small lull as the cycle enters its "valley" (not that prices will drop, but they won't appreciate at the rate we're seeing today).  So the agent might be suggesting he'll see a greater rate of appreciation over the next couple of years in the short run at Gillham.

As to actually comparing the short term return of the RM the Gillham/Union Hill area, i'd say that's a crap shoot.  Once Founder's Hill comes on-line I'm guessing there will be more than enough units to satisfy present demand for a period, but who knows, maybe the people/investment/retail synergy will result in another demand boost for the area (and thus create greater demand than there is supply in the short term and boost prices).  But there's no reason to think that once 2007 rolls around and many of the big projects downtown are completed there won't be a larger influx of people into the area willing to give downtown a try (and i would think that with the Rivermarket being right there it would be one of the first to see the effects of this).

But hey i have no crystal ball, so who knows.  There are a lot of contingencies, and even though something might make sense theoretically, things might not work out that way in real life.

Still, this is a suburban outlook on an urban neighborhood.  I personally don't think it fits.  More units in a neighborhood helps to support more amenities at more hours and creates more of a bustle, which in turn attracts more people to the neighborhood and makes the units more valuable.  True, there are a limited number of people that want to live there as it exists today, but as it grows, the population it attracts grows with it. 

The claim probably fits a lot more with the most expensive units, as there is a limited demand for those in the first place and they don't do a ton to help density or bustle in the neighborhood, but overall, more units in a growing neighborhood are good for the existing units.

[scartva]

Hmm, sounds more and more like I should have gone with the River Market over the Crossroads area.   GOSH!!!!!  The grass is always greener........

[scooterj]

haha, i walk (usually bike) to the crossroads from 41st street...

After I walked from Waldo to the River Market a couple of weekends ago I take any claim of something being too far to walk quite lightly.      Pretty much anything between Union Station and the River is quite walkable and any two points in that core area can be reached in about 20-25 minutes or less on foot.