Trains blowing their horns at 2:30 AM

[janda]

I realize this isn't along the lines of people-movers as with most of the threads here, but damnit, I'm sick of it.

It's 2:30 in the fucking morning, and I can't fathom any reason these assholes need to be blowing their horns.  I have half a mind to find out who's operating the thing, pulling my car into their driveway and blowing the horn at 2:30 AM.

Now that I'm done ranting, this brings me to a real point, and a hypothetical:

Are these horns actually helping anyone at this time of the night?

Are they violating Kansas City's noise ordinance?

and...the hypothetical...

Can you be in violation of a city's noise ordinance while physically being outside of their jurisdiction if measured sound pressure levels are high enough within the city limits?

Anyhow, back to bed until another train wakes me up.  No big deal, I only live what, 2 miles from a train track?

[KansasCityCraka]

They honk their horns year round at this time. The noise is just traveling further through the cold air.

[janda]

They honk their horns year round at this time. The noise is just traveling further through the cold air.

Oh, it pisses me off year-round, too.  It's not just the cold, dense air.

[Tosspot]

As a frequent insomniac I think I can sympathize, but I'd guess also the train companies require the conductors to do this to stave off threat of lawsuits in case someone ends up horribly mangled. The USA is on the more litigious end of the scale, as we all know.

[VELO DOOM]

I'm sure what you are hearing is a train going over a grade crossing.  Any time a train goes through a crossing it must whistle and ring its bell.  There is a certain sequence the train crew must whistle. Two long blasts, a short, and another long as the front of the engine actually starts across the crossing.  Whistling a crossing is done, not only to annoy you at 2:30 in the morning but to also warn anyone coming near the crossing that a train is indeed coming.  But wait, there is more!  This whole whistling business is federally mandated.  A little organization known as the FRA keeps us in check.  A train crew can catch a pretty hefty fine or lose their job for not whistling a crossing. 

There is hope for you janda....some small farm towns do in fact have a whistle ordinance type thing where at a certain time of the night train crews are not required to whistle a crossing.  Guess you could always try that....or you could buy ear plugs.

and if you are wondering, I do in fact work for the railroad.

[Steve52]

Best invention since sliced bread

[KCLover]

Best invention since sliced bread

I've always wondered. If you wear ear plugs every night how the hell do you wake up to your alarm clock?

[Tosspot]

I've always wondered. If you wear ear plugs every night how the hell do you wake up to your alarm clock?

They're good but not that good. Unless your alarm is timid and also happens to be a room or two away.

[teclis]

As a conductor I can confirm what VELO DOOM said. Anytime a train has to cross over a road the operator MUST blow for the crossing. The reason you might hear it more at night is because a lot of the industry work that the railroads do are at night. Over here in Denver I live about six miles from a rail crossing and it's driving me crazy right now because I hear it all the time yet I am furloughed (laid-off) from work right now.

The only time that I know when we don't need to blow the horn is when the crossings have been fitted so that cars cannot pass when the gates are down and they have been updated in our track bulletins.

The locomotives have black boxes in them in case of an accident.

I have always been a light sleeper and for years have had to use a fan for background noise. Works great.

Hope this helps.

[shinatoo]

It's a bummer they built train tracks, with an at grade crossing, that close to your existing home.

I assume that's what happened, right? You were there first.

Because it would be moronic to move near an existing at grade crossing then start complaining about the noise from the trains. Kind of like moving next to a dump and complaining about the smell.

[MidWestSider]

You could always lobby for a "Quiet Zone"

Railroad Quiet Zones
A quiet zone is a railroad grade crossing at which trains are prohibited from sounding their horns in order to decrease the noise level for nearby residential communities. The train horns can be silenced only when other safety measures compensate for the absence of the horns.

The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) train horn rule provides localities nationwide with the opportunity to establish quiet zones. The federal rule pre-empts all applicable state laws. To qualify, communities wishing to establish quiet zones must equip proposed grade crossings with adequate safety measures to overcome the decrease in safety created by silencing the train horns. The additional safety measures must be constructed at the community’s own expense and must meet federal specifications. The federal rule also contains language which for the first time restricts the volume of train horns.

[DaveKCMO]

that's a pricey proposal for a city that's broke, considering how many grade crossings are in the west bottoms (and the fact that they are oddly diagonal). maybe that's what's been keeping the WB from being developed all these years? it would certainly provide relief to those living in quality hill since the noise travels straight up the bluff.

[staubio]

that's a pricey proposal for a city that's broke, considering how many grade crossings are in the west bottoms (and the fact that they are oddly diagonal). maybe that's what's been keeping the WB from being developed all these years? it would certainly provide relief to those living in quality hill since the noise travels straight up the bluff.

Exactly. I always have to toss in the train noise disclaimer when recommending Quality Hill Towers to someone. It can get quite loud.

The sad thing is, in recent studies, the train noise is actually louder in some residential living rooms than it is in the cabs of modern cars. The negative extranalities of this rule are massive and it seems to be a bit out of date.

Could there be some speed consideration? Through the West Bottoms, trains are never tearing through at a significant pace, to the extent that one could probably see a potential event and whistle if necessary.

Also, awesome that we have two conductors on the forum. Cheers, guys.

[DaveKCMO]

they do some interesting things with light rail train horns. something highly directional so that the entire area isn't blanketed with sound, just the immediate area or right in front of the engine. i'm not sure FRA oversees LRT systems if they don't share a corridor with freight though, so maybe that's why there's more flexibility.

[MidWestSider]

Also, awesome that we have two conductors on the forum. Cheers, guys.

Make that Three,

Here is a study that Olathe is doing to deal with 11 at-grade crossings

http://www.olatheks.org/PublicWorks/Con ... nQuietZone

Total Project Cost: $5,100,000

also..

Atchison, KS converted 3 crossings for $70,000

[teclis]

staubio,

We had a conductor die about two months ago working an industry job. The train was going across the road and the conductor was riding the point on the side of a railcar. A semi hit the railcar and he was pinned between the semi and railcar. There were reports that the truck driver was on his cell phone, he was arrested. Not sure what became of the investigation. I do know that the train was going 5mph at the time and had been blowing his horn. With my company you must be on the ground protecting the crossing, not sure about his.

It's always sad when someone dies, but this one hits close to home since he had, and I have, three girls.

I know when I lived down in the River Market I would always go across tracks that never seemed to be used, then when I lived at 200 Delaware and started to hear this at 4AM I realized that they were still active and started to pay more attention.

Also staubio, did you put a post up a few years ago looking for some ideas on lofts downtown? I remember recommending the lofts above the City Market to someone and was wondering if it was you, and if so, did you ever get a chance to look at them? I have lived in six different lofts and by far my favorite was when I lived above Succotash.... great times.

[staubio]

staubio,

We had a conductor die about two months ago working an industry job. The train was going across the road and the conductor was riding the point on the side of a railcar. A semi hit the railcar and he was pinned between the semi and railcar. There were reports that the truck driver was on his cell phone, he was arrested. Not sure what became of the investigation. I do know that the train was going 5mph at the time and had been blowing his horn. With my company you must be on the ground protecting the crossing, not sure about his.

It's always sad when someone dies, but this one hits close to home since he had, and I have, three girls.

I know when I lived down in the River Market I would always go across tracks that never seemed to be used, then when I lived at 200 Delaware and started to hear this at 4AM I realized that they were still active and started to pay more attention.

Also staubio, did you put a post up a few years ago looking for some ideas on lofts downtown? I remember recommending the lofts above the City Market to someone and was wondering if it was you, and if so, did you ever get a chance to look at them? I have lived in six different lofts and by far my favorite was when I lived above Succotash.... great times.

teclis,

Thanks for sharing your perspective. That is a tragic story and it is borderline absurd. It seems like whistles couldn't do much to protect the worker in that instance as the truck driver's negligence was beyond measure.

The tracks near the Market are certainly active. The lullaby of the screeching of trains rounding the corner onto the Hannibal sings me to sleep in the summertime. I didn't end up living in the ones above the City Market but I have friends that live there and love it. Very cool spaces.

[kcdcchef]

i can remember walking home along i think either grand or mcgee one night at like 2am from the hyatt, seeing a rail car come along the alley way on these tracks, pulling one boxcar, going slow as fuck, with some dude jump off the front at each intersection to verify no one was in the way. i was blown away. my piscoitta sales rep later told me that they delivered their produce to the city market this way, nightly. i could not believe it.

[GRID]

i can remember walking home along i think either grand or mcgee one night at like 2am from the hyatt, seeing a rail car come along the alley way on these tracks, pulling one boxcar, going slow as fuck, with some dude jump off the front at each intersection to verify no one was in the way. i was blown away. my piscoitta sales rep later told me that they delivered their produce to the city market this way, nightly. i could not believe it.

You are talking about the KC Star paper train right?  That train ran like twice daily between Grand and Main delivering giant rolls of paper to the old printing press.

Now the come in on trucks to the new press.

Another thing people may not realize is that trains much blow their horns if there is an sort of construction activity on or near the tracks.

So even if there are no crossings, like in the KCT Canyon, trains will often blow their horns, even if there is no visible construction going on.

[kcdcchef]

You are talking about the KC Star paper train right?  That train ran like twice daily between Grand and Main delivering giant rolls of paper to the old printing press.

Now the come in on trucks to the new press.

Another thing people may not realize is that trains much blow their horns if there is an sort of construction activity on or near the tracks.

So even if there are no crossings, like in the KCT Canyon, trains will often blow their horns, even if there is no visible construction going on.

at that time, 92, i was told it went to the river market with produce.