total auto industry employment in KC?

[bbqboy]

What's the total employment in KC associated with the Auto Industry? Manufacturing and parts suppliers are what I am imagining. How much stands to be lost if there is no bailout?

[AllThingsKC]

The GM Fairfax plant in KCK employs about 2,700 people.

The Ford Claycomo plant employs about 4,700 people.

[KCMax]

A good point made on NPR this morning is that this "3 million jobs lost associated with the auto industry" figure being tossed around is misleading because even if there is no bailout, the Big Three wouldn't just close their doors tomorrow. They would continue to operate and the losses would be gradual, allowing other industries (dealerships, suppliers, etc.) to make adjustments along the way. There would still be lots of jobs lost, but "3 million" is probably an overestimate.

[KCMax]

Ford Claycomo plant buys out 140 workers

[LenexatoKCMO]

A good point made on NPR this morning is that this "3 million jobs lost associated with the auto industry" figure being tossed around is misleading because even if there is no bailout, the Big Three wouldn't just close their doors tomorrow. They would continue to operate and the losses would be gradual, allowing other industries (dealerships, suppliers, etc.) to make adjustments along the way. There would still be lots of jobs lost, but "3 million" is probably an overestimate.

Plus their worst case scenario is probably Chap 11, not Chap 7 - so while there would likely be large layoffs, its not like they would ever shut 100%.  I have read some fairly thoughtful pieces that seem to suggest that a chap 11 reorg might do more for the long term health of these whales than a bailout infusion. 

I personally can't see how giving them 50bllion is going to change the fact that most people don't really feel like buying a car right now and a lot of them couldnt qualify for credit if they could.  We would be giving money to improve production of a product with falling demand - genius! &

[aknowledgeableperson]

As one talking head said "Would you buy a car made by a manufacturer in Chapter 11?"

[KCMax]

Plus their worst case scenario is probably Chap 11, not Chap 7 - so while there would likely be large layoffs, its not like they would ever shut 100%.  I have read some fairly thoughtful pieces that seem to suggest that a chap 11 reorg might do more for the long term health of these whales than a bailout infusion. 

I personally can't see how giving them 50bllion is going to change the fact that most people don't really feel like buying a car right now and a lot of them couldnt qualify for credit if they could.  We would be giving money to improve production of a product with falling demand - genius! &

I read somewhere that Chapter 11 wouldn't work because it limits your ability to get credit, and car companies rely on credit to get parts. I don't know much about bankruptcy...could the judge change that to accommodate the car companies?

[NDTeve]

They got some serious work to do. I think Chapter 11 is the best thing for them. They can start by stopping the butt-raping that the Unions are performing on them.

[LenexatoKCMO]

As one talking head said "Would you buy a car made by a manufacturer in Chapter 11?"

That is the industry spin du jour.  But it is likely a fallacy - no one is buying a car anyway right now anyway - by the time the market for automobiles recovers, they should be out of 11.  The american people are a frugal and forgetful lot - Oldsmobile enjoyed some of its best sales the year they announced they were going out of business due to aggressive pricing.  A year or two from now, no one will factor in the fact that they went through a reorg into the purchasing decision.  

[kcmetro]

American car companies need to stop trying to make several different, yet similar vehicles for different classes of vehicles.  They need to stick to 1 or 2 good cars in each class, instead of spreading themselves so thin.  That runs up costs big time.

Also, the union jobs aren't the problem.  It's the amount of workers they employ that is the problem. Far too big of a workforce for what they produce.  Universal HC would come in handy in this case.  If GM didn't have to pay those outrageous HC benefits, imagine the costs they could cut.

[KCMax]

American car companies need to stop trying to make several different, yet similar vehicles for different classes of vehicles.  They need to stick to 1 or 2 good cars in each class, instead of spreading themselves so thin.  That runs up costs big time.

Also, the union jobs aren't the problem.  It's the amount of workers they employ that is the problem. Far too big of a workforce for what they produce.  Universal HC would come in handy in this case.  If GM didn't have to pay those outrageous HC benefits, imagine the costs they could cut.

Yea, from what I understand the unions have capitulated to the point where their workers are treated pretty much the same as non-union workers employed by foreign auto workers. Its the legacy costs - health care and pensions  - made long ago that are killing them.

[beautyfromashes]

Yea, from what I understand the unions have capitulated to the point where their workers are treated pretty much the same as non-union workers employed by foreign auto workers. Its the legacy costs - health care and pensions  - made long ago that are killing them.

These consessions don't take place until 2010.  That is part of the problem.  The car companies are trying to survive until then so their costs will be decreased to market rate.  This all should have happened decades ago.  Plain and simple: UNIONS KILL BUSINESSES.

[DaveKCMO]

As one talking head said "Would you buy a car made by a manufacturer in Chapter 11?"

i would buy a honda/acura or toyota/lexus/scion even if they were in chapter 11. the perception of reliability and a healthy after-market are key.

[cknab1]

That’s what so scary about the “Employees Free Choice Act”  If that passes we can just forget about what little industry we have left in America. 

[mean]

Plain and simple: UNIONS KILL BUSINESSES.

Plain and simple: WHITE PEOPLE ARE STUPID.

[KCMax]

i would buy a honda/acura or toyota/lexus/scion even if they were in chapter 11. the perception of reliability and a healthy after-market are key.

Agreed. A car from a company in Chapter Eleven is probably going to be discounted. I'm sure there are steps a bankruptcy judge could take to make sure the warranties are backed, assuring car buyers.

[DaveKCMO]

Plain and simple: UNIONS KILL BUSINESSES.

because killing workers is so much better for the economy! there has to be a balance. the much-needed UAW concessions made in the last round of talks go into effect in 2010, which is why the automakers need a loan while no one is buying cars from any maker. germany and the UK are also fielding requests from automakers for short-term assistance. as long as there are strings attached (no golden parachutes, emphasis on fuel efficient car sales) then the bailout will happen.

[lock+load]

Plain and simple: UNIONS KILL BUSINESSES.

Right.  Poor management decisions have nothing to do with it.  No matter what goes wrong, it is the fault of the worker, never management.

[KCFutbol]

These consessions don't take place until 2010.  That is part of the problem.  The car companies are trying to survive until then so their costs will be decreased to market rate.  This all should have happened decades ago.  Plain and simple: UNIONS KILL BUSINESSES.

Absolute nonsense.

You just don't want blue collar workers to make a decent wage, do you?

[KCMax]

Right.  Poor management decisions have nothing to do with it.  No matter what goes wrong, it is the fault of the worker, never management.

And weren't a lot of the legacy costs offered by management so they didn't have to pay higher salaries at the time? Seems like management erred in being pennywise, but poundfoolish.