Misc Crossroads News

[FangKC]

... I don't think a stadium vote would pass a popular vote there now even if the crossroads people changed there mind and the loudest ones probably won't.

A second stadium vote might pass if the Royals build in the East Village. I don't think many on this forum understand how unpopular the East Crossroads site was among the voting public, and how it completely changed the dynamic and outcome.

The Royals are convinced via the data they have that the location wasn't in the top 3 reasons the vote failed. The location wasn't even the issue at all, the very loud noise about saving some small businesses had an impact that'd make the top 5 but the reasons this vote failed were.

1. Poor Communication/Lack of Planning
2. Anger from Jackson County property tax fiasco
3. Save the K, older demo who refuse accept change

Number 1 includes several things. The parking concerns, the threats to leave, traffic etc.

The Royals should discount it at their peril. The change in location shifted the winds. I knew the vote would fail but no one on this forum thought it could happen. I knew it wouldn't even be close. I knew this because I pay attention to chatter outside of here and outside the media bubble. Many on here paid so much attention to you and your Cordish talking points that you failed to see what was coming.

If this is the data the Royals are being given, they should reconsider it. They were so completely misinformed about their chances. Whoever was advising them completely failed. It all comes down to whom they were polling. Polls can be so completely wrong. It's funny seeing that whatever information they had before the vote was so off, and Royals management completely misread the public on this.

Again, I think a stadium vote might pass if the Royals built in the East Village and did a better job (and took the time) explaining ALL the financing involved and how the development would happen in addition to the stadium. Set aside the funding coming from the extension of the stadium tax, there was a significant portion of funding that wasn't explained before the vote. That put a lot of people off approving anything. Many KCMO people in Jackson County feared they would get hit three ways paying for this project if the county, state, and city were all contributing financing. Many Jackson County residents are already worried about anything that will increase taxes. Because of inflation and interest rates, residents might be uneasy about approving big spending projects. It was the WRONG TIME to ask.

The plan needed to be more fleshed out like how many apartments would be built, how many would be affordable and market rate etc. They need to illustrate what parking will be available (garages and space counts) for baseball games with maps showing the locations and counts. Will the City install more wayfinding signage for parking? Will apps show how many spaces are available in each garage or lot so people don't have to drive from place to place looking for spots?

The East Village will be the location that will have the least resistance and still a provide good benefit ratio. It doesn't require multiple building demolitions and doesn't have built-in vocal opposition.

I noticed that many who were on-board with a downtown baseball stadium switched to opposition when the location changed from the East Village to East Crossroads. I'm not talking about here. I mean the real world where people don't spend countless hours arguing about development plans.

Some felt it was a bait-and-switch after years of expecting it would be built in the EV. Another subset was pissed because it required too many additional building demolitions AND it was too disruptive to existing business owners who had spent years building up the East Crossroads.

It ended up being a PR shit-show: those with money and power pushing the small guy out. That's how some people saw it. The Royals made a stupid error. It's hard enough getting small business owners willing to invest in downtown. The one part of downtown where they could do that was where the big gorilla wanted to plop down and squash them.

The Royals did about everything wrong that could be done.

This vote outcome was less about the Chiefs. It's no wonder they want to make their plans separate from the Royals.

[FangKC]

That campaign was so poorly executed that I have zero faith in their ability to do a capable review of why they think it failed.

This.

2. Anger from Jackson County property tax fiasco

Also, I'm not seeing how this had any impact on the vote whatsoever. I didn't hear anyone talking about it and I don't really see the connection other than JaxCo being a part of both issues. Seems like something a consultant would throw in there to make it seem like it wasn't all the Royals fault.

It has an impact for some voters. Many Jackson County residents are very worried about the outcome of tax assessments. Timing is everything. Many are feeling uneasy about things like inflation, interest rates, and taxes. In this environment, people are hesitant to approve big spending projects.

If you are someone living on Social Security income, and you had difficulty paying your property taxes BEFORE the big increase in assessments, having your taxes triple might mean losing your house or having to sell and move somewhere cheaper. These voters aren't primed to approve additional taxes or even extend one they've already been paying. Jackson County has a lot of low-income voters.

https://www.missouribusinessalert.com/g ... 86ee8.html

[TheUrbanRoo]

But it doesn't matter-- switching the stadium location to a weaker spot for downtown to *maybe* appease some stupid voters is worthless.

They've got the best site chosen by far with the Crossroads. It's the closest thing we've seen to a seamless Wrigley/Fenway in decades. Appeasing a bunch of dumbass NIMBY voters who have no clue what they're talking about isn't gonna work. Go at it without a vote and try from there.

Let the NIMBY voters inflict their damage on Arrowhead and the giant parking complex with it. But nope, not budging on the Royals.

[DColeKC]

A second stadium vote might pass if the Royals build in the East Village. I don't think many on this forum understand how unpopular the East Crossroads site was among the voting public, and how it completely changed the dynamic and outcome.

The Royals are convinced via the data they have that the location wasn't in the top 3 reasons the vote failed. The location wasn't even the issue at all, the very loud noise about saving some small businesses had an impact that'd make the top 5 but the reasons this vote failed were.

1. Poor Communication/Lack of Planning
2. Anger from Jackson County property tax fiasco
3. Save the K, older demo who refuse accept change

Number 1 includes several things. The parking concerns, the threats to leave, traffic etc.

The Royals should discount it at their peril. The change in location shifted the winds. I knew the vote would fail but no one on this forum thought it could happen. I knew it wouldn't even be close. I knew this because I pay attention to chatter outside of here and outside the media bubble. Many on here paid so much attention to you and your Cordish talking points that you failed to see what was coming.

If this is the data the Royals are being given, they should reconsider it. They were so completely misinformed about their chances. Whoever was advising them completely failed. It all comes down to whom they were polling. Polls can be so completely wrong. It's funny seeing that whatever information they had before the vote was so off, and Royals management completely misread the public on this.

Again, I think a stadium vote might pass if the Royals built in the East Village and did a better job (and took the time) explaining ALL the financing involved and how the development would happen in addition to the stadium. Set aside the funding coming from the extension of the stadium tax, there was a significant portion of funding that wasn't explained before the vote. That put a lot of people off approving anything. Many KCMO people in Jackson County feared they would get hit three ways paying for this project if the county, state, and city were all contributing financing. Many Jackson County residents are already worried about anything that will increase taxes. Because of inflation and interest rates, residents might be uneasy about approving big spending projects. It was the WRONG TIME to ask.

The plan needed to be more fleshed out like how many apartments would be built, how many would be affordable and market rate etc. They need to illustrate what parking will be available (garages and space counts) for baseball games with maps showing the locations and counts. Will the City install more wayfinding signage for parking? Will apps show how many spaces are available in each garage or lot so people don't have to drive from place to place looking for spots?

The East Village will be the location that will have the least resistance and still a provide good benefit ratio. It doesn't require multiple building demolitions and doesn't have built-in vocal opposition.

I noticed that many who were on-board with a downtown baseball stadium switched to opposition when the location changed from the East Village to East Crossroads. I'm not talking about here. I mean the real world where people don't spend countless hours arguing about development plans.

Some felt it was a bait-and-switch after years of expecting it would be built in the EV. Another subset was pissed because it required too many additional building demolitions AND it was too disruptive to existing business owners who had spent years building up the East Crossroads.

It ended up being a PR shit-show: those with money and power pushing the small guy out. That's how some people saw it. The Royals made a stupid error. It's hard enough getting small business owners willing to invest in downtown. The one part of downtown where they could do that was where the big gorilla wanted to plop down and squash them.

The Royals did about everything wrong that could be done.

This vote outcome was less about the Chiefs. It's no wonder they want to make their plans separate from the Royals.

You’re relying on antidotal hearsay and the Royals are working with statistical analysis.

I wasn’t on here trying to sell the vote either. I often said I didn’t know how it would go because I felt it was so close and it was. I was also told I wasn’t helping Cordish and Royals with my attitude on small business. I had no talking points. If I did they were mine, not those of Cordish but hey how long have people been telling me what I’m about on here now?

[DColeKC]

But it doesn't matter-- switching the stadium location to a weaker spot for downtown to *maybe* appease some stupid voters is worthless.

They've got the best site chosen by far with the Crossroads. It's the closest thing we've seen to a seamless Wrigley/Fenway in decades. Appeasing a bunch of dumbass NIMBY voters who have no clue what they're talking about isn't gonna work. Go at it without a vote and try from there.

Let the NIMBY voters inflict their damage on Arrowhead and the giant parking complex with it. But nope, not budging on the Royals.

Correct.
We shouldn’t settle for 2nd place because of a loud minority opposed. I’m referring to the location specifically.

[grovester]

The vote was 58-42, which most people would not consider close.

[Highlander]

The vote was 58-42, which most people would not consider close.

Actually that is pretty close considering you would only have to change the minds of a relative few to gain approval. The margin of difference was 16% but only 8.1% of the voters need to be convinced to change the outcome.

[Highlander]

If you are someone living on Social Security income, and you had difficulty paying your property taxes BEFORE the big increase in assessments, having your taxes triple might mean losing your house or having to sell and move somewhere cheaper. These voters aren't primed to approve additional taxes or even extend one they've already been paying. Jackson County has a lot of low-income voters.

https://www.jacksongov.org/News-article ... 0residence.

There is relief for senior citizens on social security in Jackson that protects them from property tax increases.

[grovester]

The vote was 58-42, which most people would not consider close.

Actually that is pretty close considering you would only have to change the minds of a relative few to gain approval. The margin of difference was 16% but only 8.1% of the voters need to be convinced to change the outcome.

Yeah, that's how math works

I guess I'd want to see which 8.1% they would target and how. Close usually implies that a do over might turn out the other way, which is not the case here.

[Highlander]

The vote was 58-42, which most people would not consider close.

Actually that is pretty close considering you would only have to change the minds of a relative few to gain approval. The margin of difference was 16% but only 8.1% of the voters need to be convinced to change the outcome.

Yeah, that's how math works

I guess I'd want to see which 8.1% they would target and how. Close usually implies that a do over might turn out the other way, which is not the case here.

Well, acc/to some posters here, they voted no because the plan as shown to the public wasn't comprehensive enough. Do that and there's some of that 8.1%. I am sure a smarter ad campaign discussing the 1. benefits of the site over other sites (addressing parking, crime, traffic and the non-destruction of the Crossroads as people know it), 2. why the Royals feel it's necessary to be downtown as part of the rationale for staying in the KC metro and 3. a contingency that provides tangible aid to those displaced by the stadium would convince enough voters obtain approval.

[KCPowercat]

The Royals are convinced via the data they have that the location wasn't in the top 3 reasons the vote failed. The location wasn't even the issue at all, the very loud noise about saving some small businesses had an impact that'd make the top 5 but the reasons this vote failed were.

1. Poor Communication/Lack of Planning
2. Anger from Jackson County property tax fiasco
3. Save the K, older demo who refuse accept change

Number 1 includes several things. The parking concerns, the threats to leave, traffic etc.

The Royals should discount it at their peril. The change in location shifted the winds. I knew the vote would fail but no one on this forum thought it could happen. I knew it wouldn't even be close. I knew this because I pay attention to chatter outside of here and outside the media bubble. Many on here paid so much attention to you and your Cordish talking points that you failed to see what was coming.

If this is the data the Royals are being given, they should reconsider it. They were so completely misinformed about their chances. Whoever was advising them completely failed. It all comes down to whom they were polling. Polls can be so completely wrong. It's funny seeing that whatever information they had before the vote was so off, and Royals management completely misread the public on this.

Again, I think a stadium vote might pass if the Royals built in the East Village and did a better job (and took the time) explaining ALL the financing involved and how the development would happen in addition to the stadium. Set aside the funding coming from the extension of the stadium tax, there was a significant portion of funding that wasn't explained before the vote. That put a lot of people off approving anything. Many KCMO people in Jackson County feared they would get hit three ways paying for this project if the county, state, and city were all contributing financing. Many Jackson County residents are already worried about anything that will increase taxes. Because of inflation and interest rates, residents might be uneasy about approving big spending projects. It was the WRONG TIME to ask.

The plan needed to be more fleshed out like how many apartments would be built, how many would be affordable and market rate etc. They need to illustrate what parking will be available (garages and space counts) for baseball games with maps showing the locations and counts. Will the City install more wayfinding signage for parking? Will apps show how many spaces are available in each garage or lot so people don't have to drive from place to place looking for spots?

The East Village will be the location that will have the least resistance and still a provide good benefit ratio. It doesn't require multiple building demolitions and doesn't have built-in vocal opposition.

I noticed that many who were on-board with a downtown baseball stadium switched to opposition when the location changed from the East Village to East Crossroads. I'm not talking about here. I mean the real world where people don't spend countless hours arguing about development plans.

Some felt it was a bait-and-switch after years of expecting it would be built in the EV. Another subset was pissed because it required too many additional building demolitions AND it was too disruptive to existing business owners who had spent years building up the East Crossroads.

It ended up being a PR shit-show: those with money and power pushing the small guy out. That's how some people saw it. The Royals made a stupid error. It's hard enough getting small business owners willing to invest in downtown. The one part of downtown where they could do that was where the big gorilla wanted to plop down and squash them.

The Royals did about everything wrong that could be done.

This vote outcome was less about the Chiefs. It's no wonder they want to make their plans separate from the Royals.

You’re relying on antidotal hearsay and the Royals are working with statistical analysis.

Stats don't lie but liars use stats. We also have no idea how in depth this statistical analysis is or if that's even accurate.

[FangKC]

The Star pavilion will likely survive as something like an immersive art experience and museum similar to those established in other cities.

https://meowwolf.com/

This would be fitting seeing that it conserves an already-built structure and saves the cost of demolition (where the City would likely end up footing the bill).

It would enhance and build on the Crossroads Arts District.

It would add another attraction downtown for residents as well as visitors.

The arts bring in more revenue annually in local economies than professional sports. They also do this without the massive tax subsidies that sports venues require.

Here's another example of immersive experience art museums. This one in London.

https://x.com/historyinmemes/status/1791383151446745475

[FangKC]

If you are someone living on Social Security income, and you had difficulty paying your property taxes BEFORE the big increase in assessments, having your taxes triple might mean losing your house or having to sell and move somewhere cheaper. These voters aren't primed to approve additional taxes or even extend one they've already been paying. Jackson County has a lot of low-income voters.

https://www.jacksongov.org/News-article ... 0residence.

There is relief for senior citizens on social security in Jackson that protects them from property tax increases.

I'm aware of that program, but you have to remember how people can respond emotionally when they live on the edge and perceive additional expenses they don't think they need.

The other psychological play here is a fairly large population of lower-income people, who aren't seniors, seeing a billionaire asking them to pay for something after several years of struggling financially through a pandemic. Many haven't recovered from that.

Bad timing. Bad messaging.

KCMO residents in Jackson County are a much different audience than those living in Clay, Platte, Cass, or Johnson County, Kansas.

[FangKC]

You’re relying on antidotal hearsay and the Royals are working with statistical analysis.

And an education in journalism, marketing, and public relations and doing that work for large organizations.

Re: anecdotal hearsay. Sometimes when people you are talking to are essentially saying the same things, it turns out to be an accurate read. I also trust my gut on these things, and the Royals made so many mistakes I knew they were failing. I put most blame on them. I don't think the Chiefs were responsible.

The filmmaker Michael Moore was sounding the alarm to Democrats in 2016 that Trump was going to beat Clinton. The professional campaign advisers ignored him. The polling was wrong. He was going on TV before the election warning Trump would win. Moore knew it was going to happen because he was talking to a lot of regular working-class people living in swing states. He was right. Many called that anecdotal information.

[TheUrbanRoo]

The vote was 58-42, which most people would not consider close.

Actually that is pretty close considering you would only have to change the minds of a relative few to gain approval. The margin of difference was 16% but only 8.1% of the voters need to be convinced to change the outcome.

Yeah, that's how math works

I guess I'd want to see which 8.1% they would target and how. Close usually implies that a do over might turn out the other way, which is not the case here.

There have been worse blowouts in city election where the initiate still ends up happening and the populous ends up loving it

[langosta]

Actually that is pretty close considering you would only have to change the minds of a relative few to gain approval. The margin of difference was 16% but only 8.1% of the voters need to be convinced to change the outcome.

Yeah, that's how math works

I guess I'd want to see which 8.1% they would target and how. Close usually implies that a do over might turn out the other way, which is not the case here.

There have been worse blowouts in city election where the initiate still ends up happening and the populous ends up loving it

The airport was polling 70% no a year before the election. The 3 month go go go camping swung 40% of voters over

[grovester]

Yeah, that's how math works

I guess I'd want to see which 8.1% they would target and how. Close usually implies that a do over might turn out the other way, which is not the case here.

There have been worse blowouts in city election where the initiate still ends up happening and the populous ends up loving it

The airport was polling 70% no a year before the election. The 3 month go go go camping swung 40% of voters over

Polling is quite different than election results.

[langosta]

There have been worse blowouts in city election where the initiate still ends up happening and the populous ends up loving it

The airport was polling 70% no a year before the election. The 3 month go go go camping swung 40% of voters over

Polling is quite different than election results.

The point is, a well-run campaign can shift opinions. Rather quickly really

[grovester]

I would question whether the airport was ever 70% against, more likely bad polling.

The question is who will the Royals target to flip and what will there argument be?

How do you flip the Save the K folks?
How do you flip the Save the Crossroads folks?
How do you flip the No taxes folks?
Are there enough None of the Above folks?
Could you boost turnout enough?

I don't think just a new vibe of a campaign will do it.

[KCPowercat]

I would question whether the airport was ever 70% against, more likely bad polling.

The question is who will the Royals target to flip and what will there argument be?

How do you flip the Save the K folks?

Well the royals said they aren't staying there so anybody in this camp is just being ridiculous

How do you flip the Save the Crossroads folks?

Don't go east of Oak

How do you flip the No taxes folks?

There are different funding sources being thrown around that may not even require a vote.

Are there enough None of the Above folks?

Don't know what their against so no answer

Could you boost turnout enough?

I don't think just a new vibe of a campaign will do it.

There was zero campaign or plan before so really any campaign is 100x better