Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

What I posted is the bare minimum they should be able to produce for voters to see, not minor details.

[KCPowercat]

You don't know how many are lurking in here looking for info. I've said my piece, feel free to continue dismissing concerns of the other side of the vote, you do it at the peril of the vote.

At least you didn't say your opinion is FACT for one post!

We have a once in a lifetime opportunity in front us that *****in my opinion***** is a generational chance to positively impact our downtown and the city of Kansas City for decades to come. Something my kids will enjoy and have civic pride over after I'm gone. Something that will help usher in the next generation of baseball fans and re-energize the current fanbase.

I don't think a person here disagrees with this. The questions being asked are to make sure we do it right. We've all seen us do it wrong too many times.

[DColeKC]

You don't know how many are lurking in here looking for info. I've said my piece, feel free to continue dismissing concerns of the other side of the vote, you do it at the peril of the vote.

At least you didn't say your opinion is FACT for one post!

We have a once in a lifetime opportunity in front us that *****in my opinion***** is a generational chance to positively impact our downtown and the city of Kansas City for decades to come. Something my kids will enjoy and have civic pride over after I'm gone. Something that will help usher in the next generation of baseball fans and re-energize the current fanbase.

I don't think a person here disagrees with this. The questions being asked are to make sure we do it right. We've all seen us do it wrong too many times.

You have people in here hellbent of saving the very few businesses in the site plan and are planning to vote no. It's not even the tax dollars for them, it's the idea that some tenants will be displaced.

[KCPowercat]

Small business is very important to people and we empathize with those business owners who worked really really hard to build up their business to now have it ripped from under them. Maybe try putting yourselves in their shoes? It is an unfortunate reality in almost every project of this scale, how can the Royals help them relocate? How can the county/city put in protects or assistance for other businesses in the others in close proximity so they can survive? Simply saying "TOO BAD, MOVE" isn't the answer that's either morally right (in most people's minds) nor popular to win votes.

[bricknose]

What I posted is the bare minimum they should be able to produce for voters to see, not minor details.

Fair enough. I’m not an expert, so as an uninformed but interested voter, renderings and basic descriptions were all I was seeking. Throwing around details like specific prices and CBA, whatever that is, is stuff that I, and I assume 99.99% of those voting, will not understand. So I’m not surprised that what we have been given doesn’t include that level of detail.

Clearly you’re well learned on the subject, so it’s fair for you to ask for more. I worry that the legitimate asks from those like yourself who know what you’re asking about is mixing in with ignorant “billionaire bad!” rhetoric. Kind of like when legitimate questions about whether or not cheap disposable masks worked against COVID was used as a foothold for people claiming the jab made them magnetic, you know?

[dnweava]

The sad thing is, I actually like the star site the best (minus closing oak) and I far prefer renovations to Arrowhead over a new stadium, especially don't want them moving to the F*cking legends, and think we are getting a fair deal in just reviewing the tax rather than increasing it...

But the way the teams are treating us and not giving us any info (and straight up lying about some things) has completely soured me. Also there are a ton of hidden costs that I truly believe will fall on CITY tax payers who don't get a say. If you live in the Northland in KCMO, your taxes will be making all the street improvements, will probably be paying for part of the park cap, will most likely subsidize some parking, will be paying the police for traffic control. So people in Jax Co in blue springs and lees summit get a say but those in the Northland will get the hidden bills. That's all I'm saying

I want downtown baseball, I want Arrowhead saved, I'm not actually bothered by a few displaced businesses, I want the park cap, etc so in theory I should be one of the loudest supporters of this, but my legit concerns are being completely dismissed as nothing burgers and that has turned me off.

[DColeKC]

Small business is very important to people and we empathize with those business owners who worked really really hard to build up their business to now have it ripped from under them. Maybe try putting yourselves in their shoes? It is an unfortunate reality in almost every project of this scale, how can the Royals help them relocate? How can the county/city put in protects or assistance for other businesses in the others in close proximity so they can survive? Simply saying "TOO BAD, MOVE" isn't the answer that's either morally right (in most people's minds) nor popular to win votes.

That's the thing, I've said it's unfortunate. I've said it sucks for some people and I've said the Royals should do everything they can to help relocate those who want to stay open. I shouldn't have to repeat this every single time I comment. The bottom line is for me, the negatives are not worth moving forward on this site and it's not even close. Forest through the trees here.

We seem to be in this ridiculous phase of society that you must be 100% on one side of an issue and you're an evil person based on which side this is. I think most people have the intelligence and the emotional capacity to understand that big decisions are difficult. Yes, I completely support this stadium site and the tax that will help pay for it. I'm not ignorant to the fallout and displaced businesses. I'm not going to continue to preface all comments with some sympathetic message before ultimately saying the sacrifice is worth the outcome.

We can't let this pass us by for the reasons I've seen expressed in here and on social media. That would be catastrophic to our cities future and no, that's not disqualifying the important of small businesses as a few will want to take it.

[DColeKC]

The sad thing is, I actually like the star site the best (minus closing oak) and I far prefer renovations to Arrowhead over a new stadium, especially don't want them moving to the F*cking legends, and think we are getting a fair deal in just reviewing the tax rather than increasing it...

But the way the teams are treating us and not giving us any info (and straight up lying about some things) has completely soured me. Also there are a ton of hidden costs that I truly believe will fall on CITY tax payers who don't get a say. If you live in the Northland in KCMO, your taxes will be making all the street improvements, will probably be paying for part of the park cap, will most likely subsidize some parking, will be paying the police for traffic control. So people in Jax Co in blue springs and lees summit get a say but those in the Northland will get the hidden bills. That's all I'm saying

I want downtown baseball, I want Arrowhead saved, I'm not actually bothered by a few displaced businesses, I want the park cap, etc so in theory I should be one of the loudest supporters of this, but my legit concerns are being completely dismissed as nothing burgers and that has turned me off.

I think the Royals hear you but just are not on a timeline you'd prefer to be honest. More info is coming. Not saying they've been great on this, it's been sloppy to be sure.

Our local taxes are not being used to pay for the cap park. Some federal taxes/grants are and they're hoping for more. They're really close to what they need.

Only thing I can say for sure regarding this post is that the Royals pay for traffic control, just as T-Mobile, PNL etc all have to pay for that. There is no tax payer provided traffic or police provided.

[bricknose]

The sad thing is, I actually like the star site the best (minus closing oak) and I far prefer renovations to Arrowhead over a new stadium, especially don't want them moving to the F*cking legends, and think we are getting a fair deal in just reviewing the tax rather than increasing it...

But the way the teams are treating us and not giving us any info (and straight up lying about some things) has completely soured me. Also there are a ton of hidden costs that I truly believe will fall on CITY tax payers who don't get a say. If you live in the Northland in KCMO, your taxes will be making all the street improvements, will probably be paying for part of the park cap, will most likely subsidize some parking, will be paying the police for traffic control. So people in Jax Co in blue springs and lees summit get a say but those in the Northland will get the hidden bills. That's all I'm saying

I saw someone in this thread mentioned Oak was getting an underpass, not being closed. I’m not sure if that was inside info or just speculation, but it does seem odd from the rendering that Oak just abruptly ends. It does not look like a closed street - it looks like it could be an underpass.

Can you go into specifics of what info is missing and what lies have been told? Maybe some of that can be cleared up.

Clearly there aren’t details on the proposal, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s being hidden. It could be that there’s an assumption, perhaps wrongly, that no one cares about such specifics. Or maybe they’re still being worked out. Insider info would be helpful. Although the more information they release prior to the vote, the better. There’s still a month and a half. Do we know one way or the other if more info is expected to be released?

And ultimately, it’s not the billionaire owner designing this - it’s the company they contracted for the design. What is that company? What’s their past history? Have they developed successful, well-integrated projects in KC before? Do they have a history of bad designs or being excessively tight-lipped?

[KCPowercat]

Our local taxes are not being used to pay for the cap park. Some federal taxes/grants are and they're hoping for more. They're really close to what they need.

Show people this in actual documents, not throw away comments on a marketing website. I stay informed on all these things as much as anybody on here and I've not seen anything that explains how this new cap extending this far is being paid for.

[KCPowercat]

Small business is very important to people and we empathize with those business owners who worked really really hard to build up their business to now have it ripped from under them. Maybe try putting yourselves in their shoes? It is an unfortunate reality in almost every project of this scale, how can the Royals help them relocate? How can the county/city put in protects or assistance for other businesses in the others in close proximity so they can survive? Simply saying "TOO BAD, MOVE" isn't the answer that's either morally right (in most people's minds) nor popular to win votes.

That's the thing, I've said it's unfortunate. I've said it sucks for some people and I've said the Royals should do everything they can to help relocate those who want to stay open. I shouldn't have to repeat this every single time I comment. The bottom line is for me, the negatives are not worth moving forward on this site and it's not even close. Forest through the trees here.

We seem to be in this ridiculous phase of society that you must be 100% on one side of an issue and you're an evil person based on which side this is. I think most people have the intelligence and the emotional capacity to understand that big decisions are difficult. Yes, I completely support this stadium site and the tax that will help pay for it. I'm not ignorant to the fallout and displaced businesses. I'm not going to continue to preface all comments with some sympathetic message before ultimately saying the sacrifice is worth the outcome.

We can't let this pass us by for the reasons I've seen expressed in here and on social media. That would be catastrophic to our cities future and no, that's not disqualifying the important of small businesses as a few will want to take it.

Nobody is asking you to preface every comment. This all comes from us wanting this info from the Royals. You don't have to carry their water for them, why is simply asking for these details and asking they help these businesses offending you so much?

[KCPowercat]

Good summary here of what the Royals say they would do and where we are currently at least on the CBA side this plan.
https://www.kcur.org/housing-developmen ... -agreement

[DColeKC]

Oak is closed for sure on the renderings we've all seen. Truman is tunneled under the park cap.

While I know closing Oak is hated by some, it creates a really cool pedestrian experience. The bridge over Truman funnels to the upper concourse which is acts as an outfield plaza in between the buildings and stadium. My favorite angle of the stadium:

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Oak is closed for sure on the renderings we've all seen. Truman is tunneled under the park cap.

While I know closing Oak is hated by some, it creates a really cool pedestrian experience. The bridge over Truman funnels to the upper concourse which is acts as an outfield plaza in between the buildings and stadium. My favorite angle of the stadium:

Oak closing to vehicle traffic is a non-starter is the issue. Having that many thoroughfares over 670 closed (when you include the Cap closures and Grands frequency of closure) destroys any hope of Streetcar being functional unless Main was closed to vehicle traffic and became a transit-way.

[DColeKC]

Oak is closed for sure on the renderings we've all seen. Truman is tunneled under the park cap.

While I know closing Oak is hated by some, it creates a really cool pedestrian experience. The bridge over Truman funnels to the upper concourse which is acts as an outfield plaza in between the buildings and stadium. My favorite angle of the stadium:

Oak closing to vehicle traffic is a non-starter is the issue. Having that many thoroughfares over 670 closed (when you include the Cap closures and Grands frequency of closure) destroys any hope of Streetcar being functional unless Main was closed to vehicle traffic and became a transit-way.

I think there's probably a solution that makes everyone happy and allows Oak to close. Does walnut remain open?

The only way to keep Oak open would be to slam the stadium up against Grand, which eliminates the nice wide sidewalks needed for heavy pedestrian traffic. Even if Oak remains open, it will be closed on game days so it seems like the problem will need to be addressed either way.

Hypothetically, what if we figure out a way to never close Grand outside of a few non-baseball game days a year?

Just spit-balling, I think there are ways to do this right and ensure we don't screw over the much needed streetcar.

[beautyfromashes]

Oak closing to vehicle traffic is a non-starter is the issue. Having that many thoroughfares over 670 closed (when you include the Cap closures and Grands frequency of closure) destroys any hope of Streetcar being functional unless Main was closed to vehicle traffic and became a transit-way.

It seems we've reached a new phase for downtown. 20 years ago there were very few people downtown, but they were people that were committed to urban environment and the arts and uniqueness. We've seen the area grow substantially which has largely allowed it to be a place for suburbanites to also come and enjoy. But, as the momentum grows, there will be conflict between urban design and suburban demands. I really don't know who will win. Will it be the streetcar, or parking garages? Street-level activity or pedestrian bridges? Historic preservation or eminent domain and fake brick facades? Street grid or teardowns and mini-mansions? I don't know if we've created enough urban-minded people that will resist the huge wave of suburban ones that are coming. It's going to move fast.

[KCMOJoe89]

There appeared to be confirmation of Oak's closure at the stadium announcement. When asked about access to the stadium for people commuting from eastern Jackson Co. with Oak being closed, the Royals infrastructure(?) rep replied their thinking was people from that part of the county would come up 71 and use the 23rd street exit to access the stadium from the south.

Also interesting that when asked why EV was no longer their chosen site, John Sherman summed that up to the process going longer than they had hoped, which allowed "creative ideas to percolate." Also cited the vision of Mayor Lucas and "some real estate people."

[Highlander]

Oak closing to vehicle traffic is a non-starter is the issue. Having that many thoroughfares over 670 closed (when you include the Cap closures and Grands frequency of closure) destroys any hope of Streetcar being functional unless Main was closed to vehicle traffic and became a transit-way.

But, as the momentum grows, there will be conflict between urban design and suburban demands.

I guess I don't see that as the battleground. I don't see any systemic or societal push for suburban type development downtown other than a few random developers but that's been the case for decades (e.g., Jimmy John's drive thru on Broadway). And I don't think those type of things would happen if there wasn't locally generated demand. Downtown ballparks exist in urban areas across the US and have been historically the norm.

[bricknose]

Good summary here of what the Royals say they would do and where we are currently at least on the CBA side this plan.
https://www.kcur.org/housing-developmen ... -agreement

Thanks for this share! It helped me understand your point of view. I see better now what the concerns are. Hopefully the leverage of a strong push against the vote will be enough to twist the Royals’ arm to get that CBA so everyone can feel good about this proposal.

[shinatoo]

Closing Oak is a non-starter for me too, but I'm not sure why they can't route it around the complex to the East, incorporating it with Locus.