Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

Have you ever been to 18th and oak brewery area. That is all organic growth.

[DColeKC]

Lol it is pretty funny angle on that comment.

Just to clarify, the crossroads (of which I do not live but I feel like I can speak "for" them with some knowledge) wants more buildings and activity, what they don't want is a big fat dead zone that tears out historic and active buildings.

If this thing could be done only over an interstate and mistake of a KC Star printing press, everybody would be all in. That's not reality.

That's close to the reality though.

This simply cannot be accurate. A major league baseball stadium is going to take blocks. Where is this unrealistic rendering at? Are you talking about that box you drew over a map? That would be smaller than the monarchs stadium in western KCK and still doesn't account for surrounding development the royals want to do.

The map where I drew the boxes is literally from the video mammoth sports construction released showing a stadium at this site a few days ago. Most newer stadium designs use verticality to achieve capacity levels.



The two buildings to the left are where they southern part of the current start press building sit.

[DColeKC]

Have you ever been to 18th and oak brewery area. That is all organic growth.

Yes and that area is much more in the thriving camp imho. International tap house, Grinders and all that area is great. I see nothing but fantastic increases to their sales and visitors if a stadium is within 800 feet of their store fronts.

[KCPowercat]

I am only pointing them out as you acted like there is no organic growth in the crossroads which is completely inaccurate

If they didn't get destroyed by a stadium dropping next to the. By a developer buying them out I'm sure they would increase sales. Nobody is arguing that anywhere.

[KCPowercat]

That's close to the reality though.

This simply cannot be accurate. A major league baseball stadium is going to take blocks. Where is this unrealistic rendering at? Are you talking about that box you drew over a map? That would be smaller than the monarchs stadium in western KCK and still doesn't account for surrounding development the royals want to do.

The map where I drew the boxes is literally from the video mammoth sports construction released showing a stadium at this site a few days ago. Most newer stadium designs use verticality to achieve capacity levels.



The two buildings to the left are where they southern part of the current start press building sit.

How is one placing where this is. What streets are visible, is this facing north?

[DColeKC]

North is to the right. The building shown to the far right of the stadium is where the At&t building currently sits, you can barely see the T-Mobile center above that. The stadium is bounded by McGee, Locust, Truman and 16th street which is what my quick and dirty drawing shows.

[DColeKC]

I am only pointing them out as you acted like there is no organic growth in the crossroads which is completely inaccurate

If they didn't get destroyed by a stadium dropping next to the. By a developer buying them out I'm sure they would increase sales. Nobody is arguing that anywhere.

I said from what I can tell, not denying there's zero organic growth. There's been new businesses opening and closing in older buildings for years which I guess is organic growth or organic development? I've not seen anything new built that's not been done by a developer or corporation.

I have zero desire to harm any of those businesses and see a stadium as a big win for them. I'm aware I may be alone in this and Dave has made it clear that apparently ALL crossroads owners are preparing the troops and sharping the knives for a fight. Which I think is silly considering they haven't even seen a financial impact study, true renderings or a concrete plan.

[KCPowercat]

What new is built anywhere not by a developer or company?

That site is just not big enough for a stadium and that's blindly ignoring how hard it would be to build a majority of the stadium over an interstate. Where in the world do we have any indication that modot would be open to this?

Lot of energy being spent on a pipedream at best

[DaveKCMO]

A financial impact study will be meaningless to anyone opposed to a Crossroads location. It's much more emotional than that. The neighborhood is not dominated by any institutions, and that's a big part of its appeal. A big corporate ballpark changes that balance considerably.

And then there's the demolition. No one cares that you don't think those buildings are historic or underutilized. Crossroads people have done a lot more with less. Modest commercial buildings of varying ages are our currency.

EV has been prepped for this. I"m sorry the rich dudes can't come to terms with the mayor (or whatever this pivot is really about) or that this maximizes Cordish's investment in Light towers and a lid park.

[WoodDraw]

The difference is that in the east village the land is all banked. I'm not for or against anything, but I see a path to creating a neighborhood with incentives that align towards development.

The exact reverse incentives are there for the crossroads. Cordish already owns enough land to make multiple towers. They want no competition. They want people going to the game and going to their district and building their apartments.

I don't think the royals are going to invest billions of dollars. So if we're going to go along with this charade, at least put it with a developer that might want to do something.

[DColeKC]

What new is built anywhere not by a developer or company?

That site is just not big enough for a stadium and that's blindly ignoring how hard it would be to build a majority of the stadium over an interstate. Where in the world do we have any indication that modot would be open to this?

Lot of energy being spent on a pipedream at best

Ok, so populous and a construction company that specializes in stadium construction don’t know what they’re talking about? Got it.

Last time I’ll say this. These people don’t have the time to waste on pipe dreams. They wouldn’t be considering it if it wasn’t doable.

[TheSmokinPun]

What new is built anywhere not by a developer or company?

That site is just not big enough for a stadium and that's blindly ignoring how hard it would be to build a majority of the stadium over an interstate. Where in the world do we have any indication that modot would be open to this?

Lot of energy being spent on a pipedream at best

Ok, so populous and a construction company that specializes in stadium construction don’t know what they’re talking about? Got it.

Last time I’ll say this. These people don’t have the time to waste on pipe dreams. They wouldn’t be considering it if it wasn’t doable.

And they threw it out as way too expensive & crazy to build a stadium over the freeway, not just slight overlap. You're asking for a secured facility that would have a wide open freeway underneath. So not only does it seem super expensive to build the thing over it, but they'll have to spend more money securing & probably using different building materials so right field doesn't cave in.

This really does feel like a power grab to monopolize. I'm sorry man, I know you mean well & I'm not personally attacking you, but it does feel that way.

[DColeKC]

A financial impact study will be meaningless to anyone opposed to a Crossroads location. It's much more emotional than that. The neighborhood is not dominated by any institutions, and that's a big part of its appeal. A big corporate ballpark changes that balance considerably.

And then there's the demolition. No one cares that you don't think those buildings are historic or underutilized. Crossroads people have done a lot more with less. Modest commercial buildings of varying ages are our currency.

EV has been prepped for this. I"m sorry the rich dudes can't come to terms with the mayor (or whatever this pivot is really about) or that this maximizes Cordish's investment in Light towers and a lid park.

A ballpark that occupies 5% of the bounded area we call crossroads is going to dominate the neighborhood?

And we have processes and procedures for declaring buildings historic. One’s affection for a 50 year old structure doesn’t make it historic.

There will still be an abundance of older modest commercial buildings if this happens. No one cares what I think but if you’re really honoring the best use of the land, you should care.

And we should consider prior tax backed investments when making big investments downtown. The projected revenue way back in the day for PNL likely assumed the arena would have a sports anchored tenant. Wouldn’t it be intelligent to build this somewhere that could help the city out with the bond payments?

Of course you have to mention the rich guys as if this is all about corporate greed. I’m sorry your feelings don’t like this, but we should be making billion dollar decisions based upon facts, not emotions.

[DColeKC]

What new is built anywhere not by a developer or company?

That site is just not big enough for a stadium and that's blindly ignoring how hard it would be to build a majority of the stadium over an interstate. Where in the world do we have any indication that modot would be open to this?

Lot of energy being spent on a pipedream at best

Ok, so populous and a construction company that specializes in stadium construction don’t know what they’re talking about? Got it.

Last time I’ll say this. These people don’t have the time to waste on pipe dreams. They wouldn’t be considering it if it wasn’t doable.

And they threw it out as way too expensive & crazy to build a stadium over the freeway, not just slight overlap. You're asking for a secured facility that would have a wide open freeway underneath. So not only does it seem super expensive to build the thing over it, but they'll have to spend more money securing & probably using different building materials so right field doesn't cave in.

This really does feel like a power grab to monopolize. I'm sorry man, I know you mean well & I'm not personally attacking you, but it does feel that way.

Our convention center can span the freeway but this can’t? Target Field can do this but we can’t?

[DColeKC]

The difference is that in the east village the land is all banked. I'm not for or against anything, but I see a path to creating a neighborhood with incentives that align towards development.

The exact reverse incentives are there for the crossroads. Cordish already owns enough land to make multiple towers. They want no competition. They want people going to the game and going to their district and building their apartments.

I don't think the royals are going to invest billions of dollars. So if we're going to go along with this charade, at least put it with a developer that might want to do something.

So the royals should work with the only developer who’s actually done something substantial in our downtown over the last 15 years?

[TheSmokinPun]

Ok, so populous and a construction company that specializes in stadium construction don’t know what they’re talking about? Got it.

Last time I’ll say this. These people don’t have the time to waste on pipe dreams. They wouldn’t be considering it if it wasn’t doable.

And they threw it out as way too expensive & crazy to build a stadium over the freeway, not just slight overlap. You're asking for a secured facility that would have a wide open freeway underneath. So not only does it seem super expensive to build the thing over it, but they'll have to spend more money securing & probably using different building materials so right field doesn't cave in.

This really does feel like a power grab to monopolize. I'm sorry man, I know you mean well & I'm not personally attacking you, but it does feel that way.

Our convention center can span the freeway but this can’t? Target Field can do this but we can’t?

Bartle isn't an enclosed tunnel with ventilation, & also doesn't need the added costs going over the highway would add. And we've already talked about Target Field not really going over the freeway at all, just a small part of the right field bleachers.

Feels like you're the only one on this train right now. It just doesn't feel like it's going to be a thing. Sure, it's more glamourous, I won't doubt that. But the Crossroads truly doesn't need it the way the EV does. We want to activate all of downtown, not place something of value into a slot that doesn't really need it at all. You don't see local Crossroads residents going out & screaming "BUILD HERE!"

[WoodDraw]

The difference is that in the east village the land is all banked. I'm not for or against anything, but I see a path to creating a neighborhood with incentives that align towards development.

The exact reverse incentives are there for the crossroads. Cordish already owns enough land to make multiple towers. They want no competition. They want people going to the game and going to their district and building their apartments.

I don't think the royals are going to invest billions of dollars. So if we're going to go along with this charade, at least put it with a developer that might want to do something.

So the royals should work with the only developer who’s actually done something substantial in our downtown over the last 15 years?

You keep pretending that cordish is involved in this and they're not. They want to protect their property.


I'm with Dave. The ev has been banked for this. Let's announce it and I'll get behind it. I'm completely against the crossroads location.

[DMNBT_RCJH]

.

HThis really does feel like a power grab to monopolize. I'm sorry man, I know you mean well & I'm not personally attacking you, but it does feel that way.

No one else has vertically developed residential downtown besides Cordish, even in ZIRP. Like what are we talking about?

I’ve seen several posts talking about a lack of “competition.” There’s literally dozens of places to build and the only non Cordish places to go up are Loews and 1400KC. Copaken isn’t doing anything downtown (I’d be shocked if the Main Street site breaks ground before 2025). Block isn’t doing anything downtown.

Lux is actually trying, and they’ve got good backing, but can they clear TIF and council? 14th & Wyandotte and City Harvest are huge projects for the City that NEED to happen. If for no other reason than to signal to other developers that higher rise buildings can be market competitive against Cordish.

Maybe it’s a KC and market forces and not a “monopoly”?

Keep in mind, any ballpark village in EV would in essence also be a monopoly. So I’m not sure the point people are trying to make here.

[WoodDraw]

.

HThis really does feel like a power grab to monopolize. I'm sorry man, I know you mean well & I'm not personally attacking you, but it does feel that way.

No one else has vertically developed residential downtown besides Cordish, even in ZIRP. Like what are we talking about?

I’ve seen several posts talking about a lack of “competition.” There’s literally dozens of places to build and the only non Cordish places to go up are Loews and 1400KC. Copaken isn’t doing anything downtown. Block isn’t doing anything downtown.

Lux is actually trying, and they’ve got good backing, but can they clear TIF and council? 14th & Wyandotte and City Harvest are huge projects for the City that NEED to happen. If for no other reason than to signal to other developers that higher rise buildings can be market competitive against Cordish.

Maybe it’s a KC and market forces and not a “monopoly”?

Keep in mind, any ballpark village in EV would in essence also be a monopoly. So I’m not sure the point people are trying to make here.

Copaken hasn't developed residential? It's hard to take people serious when it's full of bullshit

[DColeKC]

And they threw it out as way too expensive & crazy to build a stadium over the freeway, not just slight overlap. You're asking for a secured facility that would have a wide open freeway underneath. So not only does it seem super expensive to build the thing over it, but they'll have to spend more money securing & probably using different building materials so right field doesn't cave in.

This really does feel like a power grab to monopolize. I'm sorry man, I know you mean well & I'm not personally attacking you, but it does feel that way.

Our convention center can span the freeway but this can’t? Target Field can do this but we can’t?

Bartle isn't an enclosed tunnel with ventilation, & also doesn't need the added costs going over the highway would add. And we've already talked about Target Field not really going over the freeway at all, just a small part of the right field bleachers.

Feels like you're the only one on this train right now. It just doesn't feel like it's going to be a thing. Sure, it's more glamourous, I won't doubt that. But the Crossroads truly doesn't need it the way the EV does. We want to activate all of downtown, not place something of value into a slot that doesn't really need it at all. You don't see local Crossroads residents going out & screaming "BUILD HERE!"

I’m not the only one on here that’s said crossroads is the best site. Nobody agrees it’s the easiest, including me!

There will be a cap on the intestate anyway. That ventilation work has to be done regardless of the stadium.

Target field does go over the road though. Just like left field bleachers would here.

Debatable if we should be placing it in EV because that area needs it. I don’t think that area needs anything just for the sake of filling it up. I think we should build downtown so it’s cohesive and best for all residents. Not broken out into little pockets that require more walking than necessary. What’s not debatable is if this site results in a better fan experience.

Just my opinion though. I know it’s not universally shared or liked.