Same here. This site isn’t where I would come to discuss politics so this has been the thread I’ve intentionally avoided for the past few months. I personally don’t find it productive and would be fine removing it.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:07 pmHonestly not entirely opposed to this. Reddit exists if people really want to have spirited debates about politics in general, and politics as it relates to development is already do discussed in the individual threads on here, albeit with significantly less hostility and targeting.UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:12 pm I read the last 10 pages of the this forum and caught up. Just my 2 cents, I think it would be best to just shut this thread down and end political discourse on KcRag. From what I read, literally none of the "debates" were even remotely productive and they all just led to doxxing. I'm pretty sure that Fountain guy like never even commented in the development forums and just spent all his time stirring shit up in the Politics forum. Like, the best case scenario from the politics forum is that a user *doesn't* get doxxed. We're all here for development, and now it's starting to seep into hurting the development threads as well if we're possibly losing great sources & members like Link2 or DCole over doxxing or bans. If people get so mad that they devolve into acting like 12 year olds and need to "dox" to make themselves feel better then I don't like what this forum breeds.
There's just literally no upside to doing a politics thread from everything I read. I'd get rid of it.
Politics
- Cratedigger
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Re: Politics
- TrolliKC
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Re: Politics
+1Cratedigger wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:21 pmSame here. This site isn’t where I would come to discuss politics so this has been the thread I’ve intentionally avoided for the past few months. I personally don’t find it productive and would be fine removing it.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:07 pmHonestly not entirely opposed to this. Reddit exists if people really want to have spirited debates about politics in general, and politics as it relates to development is already do discussed in the individual threads on here, albeit with significantly less hostility and targeting.UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:12 pm I read the last 10 pages of the this forum and caught up. Just my 2 cents, I think it would be best to just shut this thread down and end political discourse on KcRag. From what I read, literally none of the "debates" were even remotely productive and they all just led to doxxing. I'm pretty sure that Fountain guy like never even commented in the development forums and just spent all his time stirring shit up in the Politics forum. Like, the best case scenario from the politics forum is that a user *doesn't* get doxxed. We're all here for development, and now it's starting to seep into hurting the development threads as well if we're possibly losing great sources & members like Link2 or DCole over doxxing or bans. If people get so mad that they devolve into acting like 12 year olds and need to "dox" to make themselves feel better then I don't like what this forum breeds.
There's just literally no upside to doing a politics thread from everything I read. I'd get rid of it.
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Re: Politics
I personally like talking politics and it's a bit more enjoyable when there's some context to the persons views which can be assembled with how they respond to other ideas in various development topics. I'm not saying the politics section is productive and certainly doesn't change anyones minds but it can easily be avoided by those who don't want to take part. There are some people on here and some gone who just can't accept opposing political views.UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:12 pm I read the last 10 pages of the this forum and caught up. Just my 2 cents, I think it would be best to just shut this thread down and end political discourse on KcRag. From what I read, literally none of the "debates" were even remotely productive and they all just led to doxxing. I'm pretty sure that Fountain guy like never even commented in the development forums and just spent all his time stirring shit up in the Politics forum. Like, the best case scenario from the politics forum is that a user *doesn't* get doxxed. We're all here for development, and now it's starting to seep into hurting the development threads as well if we're possibly losing great sources & members like Link2 or DCole over doxxing or bans. If people get so mad that they devolve into acting like 12 year olds and need to "dox" to make themselves feel better then I don't like what this forum breeds.
There's just literally no upside to doing a politics thread from everything I read. I'd get rid of it.
While it's often a source of enlightenment for me personally as I do research after engaging with folks, this thread can also eat up my time and bring out the worst in me. Which isn't that bad but factor in fragile emotions of a very few and it can get nasty. So, I'm indifferent.
I'd error on the side of allowing adults to be adults and refrain from a thread they can't handle before flat out eliminating the thread administratively. That said, no hard feelings on my end if it goes away.
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Re: Politics
If we could keep the conversation to policy I would want to keep it open. But all of the "Cult of Personality" crap that happens in here is a big turn off.
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Re: Politics
Yeah, I understand it's not for everyone but I'm not sure I understand why the thread should go away when people can just as easily avoid it? Will be impossible to talk politics and keep it 100% about policy, it's politics, it always goes off the rails.
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Re: Politics
Yeah that's fine. Happy to keep just ignoring this thread if it means the rest of the board stays free of some of the mudslinging
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Re: Politics
The thread should go away because someone’s gonna get mad and dox Link2 or DCole one day out of anger and then we’re gonna lose our main sources for actual development because people get mad “Trump ra ra ra” or something totally irrelevant to KcRag
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Re: Politics
Yeah, it attracts the wrong element. Kind of like playing Hip Hop music at an entertainment district.*
*That was a joke but also not
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Re: Politics
Frankly I think the political discussion on this forum is rather tame compared to other forums I've seen. On some forums, it simply degrades into a "you're an idiot" "no, you're an idiot" type discussion. For the most part, people put forth their arguments and counter arguments here while playing nice at the same time and, except for a couple of people, tend to refrain from name calling. Threatening to dox should earn a ban - no argument there. You can't have an anonymous forum where people feel comfortable participating if there are those threatening to expose their identities.
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Re: Politics
We ended up banning the local left and right sides of the "you're an idiot," "no, you're an idiot!' crap because they were both insufferable, longtime visitors will recall. Oh, the good ol days...
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Re: Politics
Lucas Kunce has announced he is running for the US Senate and will take on Republican Senator Josh Hawley if he wins the Democratic nomination in Missouri.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McuIscYMRmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McuIscYMRmw
- Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Politics
Moved to not muddy up SC thread, but yes and no.TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:55 amIt’s also a lot of outdated stuff we don’t “need” anyways, right?Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:51 amIn the defense of that aspect, nearly all of the aid sent has been physical materials. Very little, if any has been actual cash. We should be more upset with the fact that $300,000,000,000 is being spent on highways this year by the feds alone…
M113 and vehicles like HMMWV’s are outdated and we were looking to get rid of them anyways. Given we likely would’ve sold them to an ally and at least recouped some of the money from them, it’s not a huge deal.
The likes of munitions, Stingers and Javelins, are a little more precarious. They have expiration dates, so they do have to be utilized or tossed out, but usually those that are close to expiration will be utilized for live fire training. The only real issue is production lines for armaments are slow and clunky anymore, so it’s hard to pivot and ramp up production for those items, so our military is definitely constrained for some of those supplies being refilled like they normally would.
All of this is to say we’re not giving them the best we have, but definitely not tossing them peanuts. If we want to be mad at anyone it definitely needs to be Germany for donating fuck all to the Ukrainian cause, Poland has given more aid than them, which is ridiculous when you compare the two nations GDPs
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Re: Politics
Won't Ukraine have to pay us for all this aide at some point?
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Re: Politics
I imagine eventually something would be worked out, similar to lend lease of ww2, but who knows honestly. While NATO is a useful alliance for sure, it’s incredibly annoying seeing how much of Europe’s defense is subsidized by us. We provide damn near everything for these multinational training events we put together in the past, and now Ukrainian aid. It’s just annoying how little weight some of the big players in Europe pull
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Re: Politics
::ahem:: Germany.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:25 pm I imagine eventually something would be worked out, similar to lend lease of ww2, but who knows honestly. While NATO is a useful alliance for sure, it’s incredibly annoying seeing how much of Europe’s defense is subsidized by us. We provide damn near everything for these multinational training events we put together in the past, and now Ukrainian aid. It’s just annoying how little weight some of the big players in Europe pull
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Re: Politics
The graph below really helps to put into perspective how little a lot of the European powerhouses actually spend on their defense, and it’s really frustrating when people don’t understand the situation that creates. The U.S. has subsidized European society since the end of the Second World War; and all the society of Europe, but more significantly Western Europe does in return? I’d give it’s constant criticism of America and the society that we’ve grown to become.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:40 pm::ahem:: Germany.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:25 pm I imagine eventually something would be worked out, similar to lend lease of ww2, but who knows honestly. While NATO is a useful alliance for sure, it’s incredibly annoying seeing how much of Europe’s defense is subsidized by us. We provide damn near everything for these multinational training events we put together in the past, and now Ukrainian aid. It’s just annoying how little weight some of the big players in Europe pull
We don’t get everything right by any means, but damnit we’re doing better in a lot of aspects than they are, and they’re spending peanuts on their defense.
It’s even more annoying when you experience it firsthand for such a long period of time. European armies tend to be incredibly poorly trained, and we far and away surpassed foreign units we trained with regularly. The worst part was the units that have dudes in their late 20’s to mid 40’s doing the same job as our 18-22 year olds, and have been doing it for damn near their entire adult life, and STILL underperformed at the tasks.
This is an incredibly touchy subject for me due to my direct experience with it (if you couldn’t tell) so I’ll quit rambling, but if NATO is to succeed at it’s purpose, the Euro powers really need to pull their damn weight.
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Re: Politics
It's not just military either. We giver far and away more humanitarian aid around the world than the European Union even though it is larger than our GDP. Look at the amount of covid vaccines we gave around the world if you want to see an example. Unfortunately, it's ingrained in European societies to not help each other until it's seen as being in their own benefit. Ukraine is an example of this. If the United States hadn't sent massive amounts of military equipment, Russia would have taken all of Ukraine and moved on Poland, then Germany. Weak European countries wouldn't have been able to do anything. It's like they naively forget their history every 100 years.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:48 pm This is an incredibly touchy subject for me due to my direct experience with it (if you couldn’t tell) so I’ll quit rambling, but if NATO is to succeed at it’s purpose, the Euro powers really need to pull their damn weight.
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Re: Politics
And if we dare bring these facts up, we're the bad guys all over again.
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Re: Politics
This is the absolute only reason Trump won his first election. People wanted someone who didn't care what other countries thought about us and did what was in the countries singular best interest. He came in as basically a version of Woodrow Wilson or Herbert Hoover wanting to isolate America from the world or at least get like funding from other countries for what we do around the world. You'd have to think if he was President now that we would be less likely to ship huge amounts of military hardware to fight the Russians, they would conquer Ukraine easily and continue on until Europe decided to respond. They would have gotten to Germany's doorstep before that happened. Of course, Biden's response and expenditure probably puts Taiwan in play for the Chinese. I don't think we can fight two sub-Super powers on two fronts alone without the help of partners, and they would be very reluctant to cross China.
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Re: Politics
It was because in that era people were tired of PC culture -- and it was a boiling point of 25 years where the US gov was selling out its working class so that the elite/corporate America would benefit. Deadly combination and Hillary was the *worst* person to run in that environment. It was basically signaling to the country that the Dems didn't give a shit about any of those qualms mentioned above.