I think that would work well if Crown Center built out their residential and it had a connection to the mall part.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:32 pm Unsure how receptive an American audience would be to the idea, but I’ve seen many examples of shopping malls throughout Europe converting what we’re once department store anchor spaces into grocery/supermarket spaces. It’s saved many malls in the area of Italy I’m currently in, even generating enough revenue that one of the malls is actually expanding rn. I know that CC isn’t a mall in the general sense of the suburban style of malls, but it could fill a void within the area, increase foot traffic into the area, and provide a much needed amenity to the local community. Again, it would be an interesting sell to the American crowd, as it isn’t super prevalent in the U.S., but it is a viable use to the space.
Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
-
- Ambassador
- Posts: 7472
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
I was having a conversation with the guy at the convenence store in in Crown Center. He was lamenting how much influence the hotel has over his operation. He used to have a TV out front that people would congrigate around to watch the Chiefs games and buy beer and snacks from his store. That was shut down by the hotel since it compeated with their bar. Also said he is "forced" to keep his prices high so they aren't undercutting what the hotel has in their pantry and room service.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:46 pmI think that would work well if Crown Center built out their residential and it had a connection to the mall part.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:32 pm Unsure how receptive an American audience would be to the idea, but I’ve seen many examples of shopping malls throughout Europe converting what we’re once department store anchor spaces into grocery/supermarket spaces. It’s saved many malls in the area of Italy I’m currently in, even generating enough revenue that one of the malls is actually expanding rn. I know that CC isn’t a mall in the general sense of the suburban style of malls, but it could fill a void within the area, increase foot traffic into the area, and provide a much needed amenity to the local community. Again, it would be an interesting sell to the American crowd, as it isn’t super prevalent in the U.S., but it is a viable use to the space.
Not sure if any of that is true, and if so, how much sway the hotel would have on a grocery store in the mall.
-
- Oak Tower
- Posts: 5576
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
- Location: Mount Hope
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Crown Center never really fully exploited its "city within a city" theme. Never built enough residential to support retail so it remained a festival shopping spot. If they had built all 3 condo towers and more apartments that in turn supported every day services it would have been a more attractive total package. Who would not consider living in such a place when in January's brutal grip food is just a coat-free honky tube away.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
The ethnic slurs aren't the worst part of this postmoderne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:58 pm Crown Center never really fully exploited its "city within a city" theme. Never built enough residential to support retail so it remained a festival shopping spot. If they had built all 3 condo towers and more apartments that in turn supported every day services it would have been a more attractive total package. Who would not consider living in such a place when in January's brutal grip food is just a coat-free honky tube away.
- TheLastGentleman
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2955
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm
-
- Western Auto Lofts
- Posts: 661
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:12 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Well I guess I'll take some blame for (re)kindling the phrase "honky tube" on these boards several years ago. It was an expression that my brother overheard circa 1979 when we (as kids) used to walk from the Main Street garage via skyway (the really primitive one from the 1950s) to the Commerce Tower where my family banked. Apparently the phrase achieved critical currency in Atlanta a few years earlier, during the development of John Portman's Peachtree Center and Plaza.
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year!
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18371
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Who bets that Halls will close down, and that is where Target will eventually land?
Hallmark has given up trying to program retail at CC, and being a land developer themselves.
Hallmark has given up trying to program retail at CC, and being a land developer themselves.
- Chris Stritzel
- Penntower
- Posts: 2434
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
I could see Halls eventually moving from their third floor "trophy" space into something smaller. Or getting rid of the high priced clothing for something more inline with what normal shoppers can buy. Target at Crown Center would be an interesting scenario. It would certainly bring a lot of people there.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18371
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
The Halls space is the only place downtown that I can think of where Target could land that doesn't require building a new space for them. That space was built to house a large retail store, and is already connected to some other retail spaces in the complex. The parking problem is solved with existing parking garages. Many places where Target could rent space in a new structure downtown (Copaken project at 12th and Grand) would also require some dedicated parking for Target. This would either be a surface lot or in a garage in that project.
The only other location--I can think of--is technically outside of downtown, but still on the streetcar route. That would be if Main Street Cadillac if ever they moved. That car dealership building might be modified into a Target.
The only other location--I can think of--is technically outside of downtown, but still on the streetcar route. That would be if Main Street Cadillac if ever they moved. That car dealership building might be modified into a Target.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18371
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
One of the early Crown Center design concepts.moderne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:58 pm Crown Center never really fully exploited its "city within a city" theme. Never built enough residential to support retail so it remained a festival shopping spot. If they had built all 3 condo towers and more apartments that in turn supported every day services it would have been a more attractive total package. Who would not consider living in such a place when in January's brutal grip food is just a coat-free honky tube away.
- GRID
- City Hall
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Oh wow, I never thought about a Target in the Halls location. That would be an absolutely perfect location for an urban target for so many reasons.
Large "big box" retail store without having to build a big box in the urban core.
High profile location, can even put signage on the bridge over grand.
Plenty of exiting structured parking.
Would bring a ton of regular local foot traffic to crown center shops, but still be a popular destination for people in all the surrounding offices and hotels.
I mean, this is such a great idea. Hopefully Crown Center is listening.
Large "big box" retail store without having to build a big box in the urban core.
High profile location, can even put signage on the bridge over grand.
Plenty of exiting structured parking.
Would bring a ton of regular local foot traffic to crown center shops, but still be a popular destination for people in all the surrounding offices and hotels.
I mean, this is such a great idea. Hopefully Crown Center is listening.
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1043
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Agreed, would probably see a huge drive in residential demand adjacent to crown center. Would love to see some more skyscrapers in that lovationGRID wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:31 pm Oh wow, I never thought about a Target in the Halls location. That would be an absolutely perfect location for an urban target for so many reasons.
Large "big box" retail store without having to build a big box in the urban core.
High profile location, can even put signage on the bridge over grand.
Plenty of exiting structured parking.
Would bring a ton of regular local foot traffic to crown center shops, but still be a popular destination for people in all the surrounding offices and hotels.
I mean, this is such a great idea. Hopefully Crown Center is listening.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
The grass lots that front Grand south of San Fran Tower could be built on. Wouldn't be too much to connect it into Halls/Shopping Center.Riverite wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:32 pmAgreed, would probably see a huge drive in residential demand adjacent to crown center. Would love to see some more skyscrapers in that lovationGRID wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:31 pm Oh wow, I never thought about a Target in the Halls location. That would be an absolutely perfect location for an urban target for so many reasons.
Large "big box" retail store without having to build a big box in the urban core.
High profile location, can even put signage on the bridge over grand.
Plenty of exiting structured parking.
Would bring a ton of regular local foot traffic to crown center shops, but still be a popular destination for people in all the surrounding offices and hotels.
I mean, this is such a great idea. Hopefully Crown Center is listening.
-
- Oak Tower
- Posts: 5576
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
- Location: Mount Hope
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Still would like to see the 2 additional residential towers on that lot. Surely if built now they would not be the matched set envisioned 45 years ago. CC has not put up a new building this century. Wonder what something au courrant would look like here. The '80's and '90's office buildings kept the masonry look of the original with a slight nod to post modernism.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8519
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
- Location: milky way, orion arm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
As Hallmark/Hall's enterprises adjust and as KC draws more national attention with investors/developers, won't be surprising if Crown Center and related properties are sold this decade, maybe sooner than later. On one hand would hate to see that happen OTOH a bigger ticket owner could actually complete CC's now 50 year old vision within this decade, refining it with TOD in mind. Seems they don't have the resources to follow through the rest on their own.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18371
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:56 pm
The grass lots that front Grand south of San Fran Tower could be built on. Wouldn't be too much to connect it into Halls/Shopping Center.
There is room for a twin tower, and another L-shaped building. I imagine a new tower would be mostly glass.moderne wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:31 pm Still would like to see the 2 additional residential towers on that lot. Surely if built now they would not be the matched set envisioned 45 years ago. CC has not put up a new building this century. Wonder what something au courrant would look like here. The '80's and '90's office buildings kept the masonry look of the original with a slight nod to post modernism.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18371
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Older adult living. Everything you need indoors but connected to transit+ culture nearby.
- cknab1
- Ambassador
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:00 pm
- Location: Crown Center
- Contact:
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Hallmark was going to convert our clubhouse by the pool to two residences plus build a 17 story tower in 2008. But the financial collapse hit and it never happened. I haven't heard any talk about it since. They did sell the parking lots south of the Hallmark complex where Gallerie has several hundred apartments plus townhouses for rent/sell. They seem to be filling up quickly.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between
Do you think that current residents would support a new tower being built? I would love to see CC finally get built out.cknab1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:25 am Hallmark was going to convert our clubhouse by the pool to two residences plus build a 17 story tower in 2008. But the financial collapse hit and it never happened. I haven't heard any talk about it since. They did sell the parking lots south of the Hallmark complex where Gallerie has several hundred apartments plus townhouses for rent/sell. They seem to be filling up quickly.