KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[DaveKCMO]

The weekday midday peak has not returned, which was a big component of weekday ridership. Weekends have returned faster, but are completely dependent on weather and programming.

[AlkaliAxel]

Would expect it to bump back up further as events return but WFH/hybrid might prevent from reaching 2019 level.

It’ll surpass 2019, but it might not be this year. Maybe 23 or 24.

I agree. Because even the WFH is going to fade out at some point as well.

[earthling]

More residential units coming online will help.

[normalthings]

How much is a "blocking the streetcar" ticket? If you block the streetcar but move your car before its towed, do you still get a ticket?

[WoodDraw]

How much is a "blocking the streetcar" ticket? If you block the streetcar but move your car before its towed, do you still get a ticket?

I saw what I assume you’re referring to today and was wondering the same thing.

[KCPowercat]

No you don't. It's ridiculous

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Been perusing the transit nerds of YouTube lately, and have noticed many graphics and statements pointing to our “class” of streetcars, I.e. the systems built at or around the same time as KC’s. These include Detroit, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Oklahoma City, and Tucson. From the metrics measuring success, KC has the dominant streetcar system from that class, as we have significantly higher ridership, more sales tax collection along the lines, more development attributed to it, and better branding. I’ve been exploring further and found a couple differences that I think set us apart.

Firstly, our route seems to be the one of the most direct of the systems, right next to Detroit. Now I understand that not all cities are the same, and some places geography and layout lend themselves better or worse, however, it seems our approach wasn’t to take people directly to sites and attractions. We had more of a “we’ll get you close enough, walk the rest of the way in”. These other systems seem to try and thread more directly to attractions and event areas, instead of allowing people to explore the city for themselves. Given their lines don’t drop you off at the front door of everything, but they don’t serve nearly as well as a spine, they look more like they’re trying to appease certain property owners or benefactors than anything.

The only one that really can directly compare to us is Detroits Q-line, but you still see not nearly as much infill along that line (given Detroit has a number of issues that can stem from.

Detroit:


Cincinnati:


Milwaukee:


Oklahoma City:


Tucson:


And of course KC’s for comparison:


It seems from the examples that there’s something to be said about simplicity. A direct route with minimal turns makes for a quick and efficient system, and I’d imagine that can help to drive ridership, vs some of the systems that meander through their cities, which mean crossing intersections, and reduce overall average speed.

Another difference seems to be the way they operate, and who the operators are.

TransDev, based in France, operates the systems for Detroit, Cincinnati, & Milwaukee.

RATP Dev, based in France, operates Tucson.

Herzog Transit, based in Saint Joseph, MO (wait what?!) operates both KC and OKC’s, however, Herzog only has a contract with the city of OKC, and there isn’t an individual authority for the streetcar that I could find.

I’m unsure why that plays such a difference, I’m thinking it has to do with micro vs macro operation styles, as I’d imagine having a large transit operator in control of a system, without direct local oversight could lead to issues that are difficult to address. Whereas KC has a local non-profit corporation, with no authority to answer to outside of the city.

Having an individual authority to deal with operations, and serve as an entity to bridge the gap between infrastructure and the public is important. None of these other systems have very user friendly websites, nor is it as easy to access things like ridership number totals, graphics, or FAQs like it is with KC, and that’s the kind of thing that people subconsciously notice.

It’s honestly a little weird to have KC considered the top dog in something, and it’s awesome to see others around the country recognize the amazing achievements that a grassroots movement from a number of people through the years can lead to. Big shout out to Dave and the others connected to this project for this as well, as I don’t think enough acknowledgement has been given to just how much of a success the KC Streetcar is!

[AlkaliAxel]

And if you think that’s a lot just wait till we get the Main St extension finished. Then we’ll blow the top off.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

And if you think that’s a lot just wait till we get the Main St extension finished. Then we’ll blow the top off.

Oh I’m well aware. It’ll be one of the best streetcar lines in the country at that point.

[AlkaliAxel]

I’m wondering how they will get a streetcar down 39th with all the parking though and single lanes

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I’m wondering how they will get a streetcar down 39th with all the parking though and single lanes

I’m still not convinced that route will come to fruition.

[daGOAT]

Good question. The street gets backed up during rush hours alot and for dinner rushes as well. Things will definitely change significantly for W 39th which I imagine will remove either street parking or driving lanes for a potential car free zone. Either way car loving Kansas City will really test the waters for replacing its driving lanes for other options with this project.

[normalthings]

Good question. The street gets backed up during rush hours alot and for dinner rushes as well. Things will definitely change significantly for W 39th which I imagine will remove either street parking or driving lanes for a potential car free zone. Either way car loving Kansas City will really test the waters for replacing its driving lanes for other options with this project.

If I win the lottery, I will fund a tunnel

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Good question. The street gets backed up during rush hours alot and for dinner rushes as well. Things will definitely change significantly for W 39th which I imagine will remove either street parking or driving lanes for a potential car free zone. Either way car loving Kansas City will really test the waters for replacing its driving lanes for other options with this project.

If I win the lottery, I will fund a tunnel

For cars or the streetcar?

[normalthings]

Good question. The street gets backed up during rush hours alot and for dinner rushes as well. Things will definitely change significantly for W 39th which I imagine will remove either street parking or driving lanes for a potential car free zone. Either way car loving Kansas City will really test the waters for replacing its driving lanes for other options with this project.

If I win the lottery, I will fund a tunnel

For cars or the streetcar?

train ofc

[daGOAT]

The KC Underground Sreetcar has a ring to it lol

[AlkaliAxel]

The issue here is that we really do need to get to KU Med.

They’ve got to figure it out somehow. I’d say get rid of street parking and build a garage. Or anything, really. I don’t really care what to do, they just need to find a way.

[moderne]

A wider street to go west on is Wesport Rd. Then a jog north to KU Med.

[CorneliusFB]

Truman, Children’s and St Luke’s are all within a stone’s throw of the Main Street line. You don’t need to run a fixed line to KU. Improve 39th for better bus route, bikeability and sidewalks.

[AlkaliAxel]

Truman, Children’s and St Luke’s are all within a stone’s throw of the Main Street line. You don’t need to run a fixed line to KU. Improve 39th for better bus route, bikeability and sidewalks.

I think you have to. KU med is too big of a deal within KC to leave unconnected to the system.