General Amtrak Discussion

[Highlander]

Would've been great if we had developed in the same way as Europe, but they had pretty good head start on widespread infratstructure for railways. Coupled with the fact that everything is relatively close in distance for the most part, it developed in a much different way.

The east coast of the US has a much older rail infrastructure and the cities are much closer together. And you see lots of train travel between NY, PA, MA, etc. Couple that with the auto and airline industries and you have some good reasons.

I agree it would be a nice option to have.

Another reasons trains work well in Europe and not in the US is that most cities in Europe are either walkable or have very good public transportation systems.  Consequently, you can take a train to your destination, hop on a subway, streetcar, taxi or bus and get to your hotel easily and without your personal vehicle.  A car in many European cities is like having an albatross around your neck.  In the US, you will need that car in about 80% of our cities so if it is at all feasible, most people choose to drive.

By the way, training in Europe, while better than the US by a longshot, is not without its own travails.    My worst experience was similar to Cityscape's; I was riding through Scotland during the Christmas holiday and the train's heating went out on an extremely cold gale-prone night heading up the east coast from Edinburgh.  After the heating went out, they de-prioritized our train so we were constantly pulling over to sidings to let other trains pass and what should have been a 3 hour trip ended up being about 6 hours.  They extended the beverage service so that people could get hot drinks and then had the audacity to make us pay for tea and coffee.  Easily one of the worst travel experiences I had over here.  In the UK, train service can be really spotty with frequent cancellation of trains and poor overall service.  In Germany, however, I've never had a bad experience and the trains are almost always on time....they know how to do trains there. 

[bahua]

I once spent 20 hours on what should have been a 13-hour train ride from Chico, CA to Portland. Extensive track repair had us stopped in Klamath Falls for three hours, though they told us we were free to go and run around town if we liked.

It was actually okay, because that was the segment of the trip that we sprang for a roomette. Also, we didn't really have anything to do once we got to Portland except drink beer, so it's not like we were late for anything. Also, up until when we got to Springfield and the Willamette Valley, the scenery was beautiful.

[tompendergast]

Today, I took Amtrak for the very first time, from Union Station to Jefferson City.  It's a good thing I wasn't in a time crunch, though, because the train was 1.5 hours late.  The tardiness was caused by our having to stop 4 times for westbound freight trains to go by, due to the fact that Union Pacific owns the track and there is only one "main track" between KC and Jeff City (although there are two between Jeff City and StL).  Perhaps if they built more track it wouldn't be a problem.

Still, all in all, despite the 4.5 hour trip to Jeff City (I usually can drive it in 2.5), as long as I'm staying overnight I'd definitely do it again because it was actually pretty civilized and relaxing.  Watching movies and chatting with other passengers is far nicer than having to stare at the road and worry that the one-toothed hillbilly in the rusted pickup truck one lane over might have had too much moonshine that afternoon.  And that's what I see as the benefits of Amtrak. =)

[advocrat]

Today, I took Amtrak for the very first time, from Union Station to Jefferson City.  It's a good thing I wasn't in a time crunch, though, because the train was 1.5 hours late.  The tardiness was caused by our having to stop 4 times for westbound freight trains to go by, due to the fact that Union Pacific owns the track and there is only one "main track" between KC and Jeff City (although there are two between Jeff City and StL).  Perhaps if they built more track it wouldn't be a problem.

Still, all in all, despite the 4.5 hour trip to Jeff City (I usually can drive it in 2.5), as long as I'm staying overnight I'd definitely do it again because it was actually pretty civilized and relaxing.  Watching movies and chatting with other passengers is far nicer than having to stare at the road and worry that the one-toothed hillbilly in the rusted pickup truck one lane over might have had too much moonshine that afternoon.  And that's what I see as the benefits of Amtrak. =)

When I rode Amtrak in April, there was considerable delay eastbound, once again caused by Union Pacific westbound freight and a traffic jam down at Rock Creek junction (north of I-70 at Manchester) however, on the way home from St. Louis it was exactly the opposite. Amtrak was just about the first train out of the City, and had an unfettered run all the way to kansas City - we were very much on time.

Everyone who cares or has an opinion should be open to either join or assist the campaign for better passenger rail service. It makes good economic sense to have alternative/backup modes of transportation. After 911 Amtrak was the chief functional mode of public transportation up and down the east coast for about a month. What would that region have done if there had been no trains? Driving would have been the second nightmare of that month, or more likely would have ground to a halt. Having more passenger rail traffic would help ease the periodic heavy congestion on the highways, and relieve or provide a safety net for travelors who get stuck in Denver, Dallas, Boston or Baltimore when some weather calamity shuts down the airports causes a ripple effect from coast to coast.

Contrary to what some naysayers say, such as the cost of improving rail rights-of-way to handle passenger trains, ("well, you know this will require the building of four new stations every 80 miles and, well that will cost the State or taxpayers a million and half, which is more than the state can afford in these tough economic times"). I think a lot of those arguments are b-s, and it's time make a change support expanded passenger rail service.

[anniewarbucks]

Here in the states the availability of railroads for use is dwindling slowly as the companies abandon the right of ways and tear the rails up. these same railroads would have been better off in use by passenger trains at least then being torn up. Also with a lot of railways their is an abundance of the single track variety not the super highway 2 way form of transportation. The Union Pacific had a route through the small town that I lived in and this was always busy but it was a one way track. They were threatning to make it into a two way track but never did. for any passenger railway to survive there would have to be more track laid in places that once had rail transportation or build new right of ways.

[staubio]

One of the major goals of the Rails to Trails Conservancy is to bank these corridors for future transportation use while making them available for recreational use now. That is why everyone should embrace things like the Katy Trail.

[advocrat]

Here in the states the availability of railroads for use is dwindling slowly as the companies abandon the right of ways and tear the rails up. these same railroads would have been better off in use by passenger trains at least then being torn up. Also with a lot of railways their is an abundance of the single track variety not the super highway 2 way form of transportation. The Union Pacific had a route through the small town that I lived in and this was always busy but it was a one way track. They were threatning to make it into a two way track but never did. for any passenger railway to survive there would have to be more track laid in places that once had rail transportation or build new right of ways.

Amtrak expansion efforts are much more practical at this point. There is this Northern Flyer Alliance organization that is working with Oklahoma/Fort Worth "Heartland Flyer to extend the route to Newton, Kansas and ideally to Kansas City. They are having an organization meeting on Thursday night in Wichita and have invited anybody from the Kansas City area who wants to attend. Norther Flyer Alliance have adopted several key strategies. One key position is that this be a day train, not a night run to Fort Worth. They have on board Senator Greta Goodwin of Winfield, Kansas and are starting their campaign.  The timing is good for this because Americans seem to be reconcilling that there will be no relief from escalating gasoline prices. The cost of this train is estimated to run around 5 miliion a year which is only a fraction of the the cost of an interchange repair.

Also, the BNSF is not opposed to having passenger rail on their system; either as a commuter operation down I-35 or as a passenger traing running out through Lawrence, Topeka and Newton. The reason I know this is because that's where Amtrak's Southwest Chief operates. So you don't even need stations put in, unless smaller towns like Emporia or Osage City, Winfield and the like want to build $125,000 platforms to serve their burgs.

 

[advocrat]

The Amtrak bill also known as Lott-Lautenberg is on the Senate floor today and looks to have passed.

Title III of this Bill provides for a lucrative mechanism, and funding up to 80% to develop inter-city passenger service.  This holds great promise for expansion out of Kansas City.

Some of our local Senators were among the minority that voted against it, including Brownback, Bond, Grassley and Roberts. McCaskill voted in favor of it.

Stay tuned for proposals that emerge from the passage of this Bill. As oil nears 100 dollars a barrel a viable transportation alternative is prudent and in the best interest of our nation. 

[DaveKCMO]

i thought roberts voted for it?

[shaffe]

does this mean a KC-STL bullet train could happen?

[DaveKCMO]

does this mean a KC-STL bullet train could happen?

it means any state can line up for limited federal matching funds starting in 2010, assuming the house passes similar legislation by a veto-proof margin this session.

in missouri, we'd need to redo the existing legislation that must be approved every year and invest some capital in the line to reduce delays and the scheduled travel time. it would be nice just to have a train that is on-time, let alone less than 6 hours point-to-point.

[anniewarbucks]

I would like to see Amtrak expand its services. I wonder if this authorization will allow it.

[advocrat]

i thought roberts voted for it?

Actually I don't know Roberts vote on S-294. He voted Nay on most the pro-Amtrak ammendments and yea on the anti-Amtrak ammendments.

[advocrat]

does this mean a KC-STL bullet train could happen?

I agree with what Davekcmo says in his recent post. There was that old backhanded compliment granted to Mussolini that went "he made the trains run on time." The obvious conclusion is that before Mussolini, the trains did not run on time; much as it is in Missouri today. If govt. regulatory entities would stand up for Amtrak instead of neglecting it, fiscally and politically, our trains could also run on time. I'm hoping that this significant legislation will move quickly through the House, and be signed into law, thus helping pave the way for improvement.

A grass-roots organization in Kansas-Okalahoma-Texas has formed a political action committee to expand passenger rail service in Kansas, potentially linking KC with Oklahoma City. Achieving that would provide a series of State trains from Chicago to Fort Worth through St. Louis, Jeff City, Kansas City, Topeka, Wichita and Oklahoma City. Notice all the State capitals along this corridor? The group is called Northern Flyer Alliance and a public meeting is scheduled from 9:00 am-noon, December 8th at Union Station in the Jarvis Hunt Room. It is a public meeting, and will be a good opportunity to find out more about this initiative.

[DaveKCMO]

one more important note on S.294... it includes penalties for host railroads if they don't help amtrak maintain on-time performance (such as union pacific is to blame for amtrak delays between KC-STL). prior to this legislation there were only marginal incentives set in the '70s, which most railroads would simply ignore because it was more profitable to move their freight in a more timely manner.

[dangerboy]

one more important note on S.294... it includes penalties for host railroads if they don't help amtrak maintain on-time performance

This is awesome news.  The Mule routes between KC and STL are some of the worst performing passenger rail routes in the country, if not the absolute worst.  Much of that is due to UP's continued attempts to sabotage and kill passenger rail on this line.

MoDOT has a plan for capital investments to improve the speed and reliability of this route.  Could we get money for it under this new legislation, or is it only for new starts?  IMHO the #1 priority should be improving the existing route before we even think about new routes in Missouri.

[DaveKCMO]

as long as we get in line i believe the matching funds can be used to fund capital improvements on existing lines to improve on-time performance. see title III...

http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php/r ... ore/s_294/

our route would meet several criteria: OTP, reduced trip time, freight/highway congestion, intermodal connectivity. it's also been state-sponsored since the early 80s and sen. bond (even though he voted against this bill... mccaskill did not) has a good record of delivering for missouri.

[shaffe]

it sounds like just another opportunity for kc and/or missouri to hop on some federal gravy train (no pun intended).  however i can just see them puttering around and not getting around to doing anything until about 10 years after all of the money is gone.

sound familiar?

[dangerboy]

it sounds like just another opportunity for kc and/or missouri to hop on some federal gravy train (no pun intended).  however i can just see them puttering around and not getting around to doing anything until about 10 years after all of the money is gone.

Actually, Missouri could be in a good position to take advantage of new federal funding.  Earlier this year MoDOT did a big study of the UP corridor that identified the worst congestion points and ways to fix them.  They can reduce about 35% of delays for $14 million and 50% of delays for $50 million.  All they are waiting on is the money.

June 2007 Rail Capacity Analysis (PDF)

[KC0KEK]

Does Amtrak already get part of the 25% (?) of the federal fuel tax that's set aside for mass transit?