18th and Vine

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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FangKC
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

HUD takes over and installs a Virginia firm to manage Kansas City's troubled Parade Park Homes
After decades of neglect and decay amid turmoil among the management of one of the country’s oldest Black-owned housing cooperatives, Parade Park Homes has been taken under federal control.

The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development sent a letter to residents on Monday saying that it needed to take over to “ensure resident safety and stabilize the property.”

HUD doesn’t own the property. Rather, it’s a housing co-op where residents are part owners of a nonprofit corporation that owns the property. It's run by a self-governing board. A HUD inspection in February found the living conditions so bad that the agency ruled the co-op had violated its regulatory agreement. That put the complex at risk of default and foreclosure.
...
This week, HUD told residents that a Virginia real estate firm, Leumas Residential, LLC, would run the housing cooperative. Leumas has managed other federal housing properties for more than five years.

Leumas will control the property’s financial accounts and mandatory inspections will be completed by Thursday, HUD said.
...
https://www.kcur.org/news/2022-11-29/hu ... park-homes
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normalthings
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Re: 18th and Vine

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KCATA proposing a district parking structure to support a mixed use development
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by smh »

Anyone keyed into this proposal to pedestrianize 18th St through 18th/Vine? Seems somewhat half-baked in this commenter's opinion.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by normalthings »

smh wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:04 pm Anyone keyed into this proposal to pedestrianize 18th St through 18th/Vine? Seems somewhat half-baked in this commenter's opinion.
They got federal funds for it right
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by smh »

normalthings wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:21 pm
smh wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:04 pm Anyone keyed into this proposal to pedestrianize 18th St through 18th/Vine? Seems somewhat half-baked in this commenter's opinion.
They got federal funds for it right
Oh, entirely possible. I just saw a plan drawing that was circulated but don't know anything of funding or timeline.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Cratedigger »

$4,000,000 to the Kansas City, Missouri Public Works Department to create an 18th Street Pedestrian Plaza. The federal dollars will be used for the creation of a Pedestrian Mall on 18th Street between The Paseo Boulevard and Woodland Avenue near the Historic 18th & Vine Entertainment District. The Pedestrian Mall will be a flexible, multi-purpose assembly area that will allow for a safe and pedestrian-friendly environment for farmers' markets, festivals, outdoor concerts, and a general congregations area for the district residents when these events are not active.
https://cleaver.house.gov/media-center/ ... 0District.

As for timeline, I'm not sure. The city is working on it though and thinking through a way to make it work with the Greenline project.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by smh »

I suppose I'd only seen the "pedestrian plaza" part. A ped mall along 18th St doesn't immediately feel like a great idea. Lots of echoes of 1970s planning.
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Re: 18th and Vine

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It doesn't meet the time-tested criteria for a successful pedestrian mall in the USA. There's no college campus nearby; it doesn't already have a lot of active-use retail and entertainment that draws regular foot traffic, the area isn't already densely-populated; and attracts a lot of daily tourist traffic. The district doesn't meet any of these.

This effort is doomed to failure, and the money allocated to install it will be wasted. Better to have spent that money on upgrading the museums or something. I know there has been past criticism that the Jazz Museum needs a lot of upgrading of exhibits, and is looking out of date. Another better use of the money would be some type of starter-business micro-loan set up to help people open businesses like restaurants and bars that would attract more people there. Helping finish the renovation of the Boone Theater would also have been a better use.

I predict they will reopen 18th Street to cars in 10 years or less after it's finished. Of course, they will come asking for more taxpayer money to do that too.

The Plaza is the only place I can think of in KCMO that could pull off a pedestrian mall.
Last edited by FangKC on Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Cratedigger »

FangKC wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:54 pm It doesn't meet the time-testing criteria for a successful pedestrian mall in the USA. There's no college campus nearby; it doesn't already have a lot of active-use retail and entertainment that draws regular foot traffic, the area isn't already densely-populated; and attracts a lot of daily tourist traffic. The district doesn't meet any of these.

This effort is doomed to failure, and the money allocated to install it will be wasted. Better to have spent that money on upgrading the museums or something. I know there has been past criticism that the Jazz Museum needs a lot of upgrading of exhibits, and is looking out of date. Another better use of the money would be some type of starter-business micro-loan set up to help people open businesses like restaurants and bars that would attract more people there. Helping finish to the renovation of the Boone Theater would also have been a better use.

I predict they will reopen 18th Street to cars in 10 years or less after it's finished. Of course, they will come asking for more taxpayer money to do that too.

The Plaza is the only place I can think of in KCMO that could pull off a pedestrian mall.
- Pedestrian malls in the United States have an 89% rate of failure. Most have been removed or repurposed. Only 11% have been successful.

- Of the 11% successful pedestrian malls, 80% are in areas with populations under 100,000.

- Certain indicators need to be present for a pedestrian mall to be successful in the United States: near or attached to a major anchor such as a university, situated in close proximity to a beach, designed to be a short length in terms of blocks, in a town/city with a population under 100,000, and/or located in a major tourist location such as Las Vegas or New Orleans.
https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sust ... t/1164313/

I suppose if the stadium was at the KCATA site, that could act as a major anchor.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by kcjak »

Four million for this?!? Shutting off a pretty significan E-W road and public transit route when there isn't any demand or need for a pedestrian mall? Are buses going to be rerouted to 19th? Nichols Rd on the Plaza, Pennsylvania in Westport or maybe a street in the City Market area served by the streetcae are all better candidates.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Jblanco »

I hate the idea of a closing 18th street for a pedestrian mall.
Terrible idea. 18th & Vine keeps getting worse.

They have routinely closed the street to cars several times over the summer and there were no issues with plenty of room for events. Why eliminate the street access permanently.
Last edited by Jblanco on Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Jblanco wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:38 pm I hate the idea of a closing 18th street for a pedestrian mall.
Terrible idea. 18th & Vine keeps getting worse.
Agreed with that, seems very shortsighted and doomed to fail.

Also haven’t seen you post here yet, but welcome to the Rag! We’re glad to have you!
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Jblanco
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Jblanco »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:39 pm
Jblanco wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:38 pm I hate the idea of a closing 18th street for a pedestrian mall.
Terrible idea. 18th & Vine keeps getting worse.
Agreed with that, seems very shortsighted and doomed to fail.

Also haven’t seen you post here yet, but welcome to the Rag! We’re glad to have you!
thank you!
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:39 am KCATA proposing a district parking structure to support a mixed use development
As long as they don't use transit money to build it.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Cratedigger »

$4,000,000 to the Kansas City, Missouri Public Works Department to create an 18thStreet Pedestrian Plaza. The federal dollars will be used for the creation of a Pedestrian Mall on 18th Street between The Paseo Boulevard and Woodland Avenue near the Historic 18th & Vine Entertainment District. The Pedestrian Mall will be a flexible, multi-purpose assembly area that will allow for a safe and pedestrian-friendly environment for farmers’ markets, festivals, outdoor concerts, and a general congregations area for the district residents when these events are not active.
https://cleaver.house.gov/media-center/ ... o-05-final

It's official. $4 mil towards the 18th & Vine Pedestrian Mall
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Cratedigger
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Cratedigger »

FangKC wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:54 pm It doesn't meet the time-tested criteria for a successful pedestrian mall in the USA. There's no college campus nearby; it doesn't already have a lot of active-use retail and entertainment that draws regular foot traffic, the area isn't already densely-populated; and attracts a lot of daily tourist traffic. The district doesn't meet any of these.

This effort is doomed to failure, and the money allocated to install it will be wasted. Better to have spent that money on upgrading the museums or something. I know there has been past criticism that the Jazz Museum needs a lot of upgrading of exhibits, and is looking out of date. Another better use of the money would be some type of starter-business micro-loan set up to help people open businesses like restaurants and bars that would attract more people there. Helping finish the renovation of the Boone Theater would also have been a better use.

I predict they will reopen 18th Street to cars in 10 years or less after it's finished. Of course, they will come asking for more taxpayer money to do that too.

The Plaza is the only place I can think of in KCMO that could pull off a pedestrian mall.
Could the Hospital Hill area act as the "college campus anchor"?
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Cratedigger »

https://cityscenekc.com/pedestrian-plaz ... -district/

Some details from Collison on the project:

Project timeline:
The design work is expected to take most of 2023. Construction would begin in late 2023 or early 2024. Completion is anticipated by early 2025.
A CID proposal for 18th & Vine may come soon - with the city subsidizing.
As for maintaining the 18th Street improvements, the area is considering the establishment of a community improvement district similar to those being used in downtown Kansas City, Westport, Main Street in Midtown and other areas.

Right now however, the existing business community in the 18th and Vine District probably isn’t large enough to provide the funding needed for a successful CID, Graham noted.

He said it may be necessary for the city to subsidize a community improvement district until the area is more robust.

“We don’t want to put the time and effort to make 18th Street as much as it could be and then fail for lack of maintenance,” he said.


Will be focused on the 18th street section of this concept:
Image

Image
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Jblanco
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Re: 18th and Vine

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I really hate this idea. There is not enough critical mass to make this functional.
Another problem is that everything they build down there is separated from 18th street. All of the new apartments on Vine and the newest project behind on 19th st is set back from 18th street. This is all ridiculous as it keeps 18th street looking deserted. Meanwhile huge parking lots and dead spaces remain on 18th st. These people know nothing about developing a critical mass. They are devoted to throwing money at their crony land owners.

This is what they are going for. You'll probably see a Street Entrance like this. But 18th & Vine does not have the civic or local support that Beale has because of 18th & Vine's failed leadership.

https://civilrightstrail.com/app/upload ... Street.jpg
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Re: 18th and Vine

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Jblanco wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:32 pm I really hate this idea. There is not enough critical mass to make this functional.
Another problem is that everything they build down there is separated from 18th street. All of the new apartments on Vine and the newest project behind on 19th st is set back from 18th street. This is all ridiculous as it keeps 18th street looking deserted. Meanwhile huge parking lots and dead spaces remain on 18th st. These people know nothing about developing a critical mass. They are devoted to throwing money at their crony land owners.

This is what they are going for. You'll probably see a Street Entrance like this. But 18th & Vine does not have the civic or local support that Beale has because of 18th & Vine's failed leadership.

https://civilrightstrail.com/app/upload ... Street.jpg
Agree 100%. That area is not ready and is still not developing in a way that would support this.
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by moderne »

Looks like street kept open to traffic, but narrowed to 2 lanes with wider sidewalks.
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