KCRag Forum

this is interesting and sad at the same time.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps870017-23955.html

a very good gallup map of the streetcar system in kc in 1920.
its been on my mind recently because there are so many streetcar poles left over around the city.
i've seen them on w 39th street, 18th, troost, soutwest boulevard, truman road, even stateline road by my apartment.

I think it's weird to see the city without the loop.

oh my god, it's a robust, fully functional metropolis!  

Take a look at the corners of the loop -- particularly the northeast and the southwest.  Plop just those interchanges over the top of the functioning grid to get a picture of just how much we gave up to drive fast.

my god.

and also imagine if we had just kept one freakin' streetcar line...

just one!  and not just for history's sake or nostalgia, but because it works!  its light rail! we would at least have the infrastructure,  instead of now having to start from scratch. 

Thank you, General Motors.

yeah, see ya later general motors.  i guess in the end they still lose.
(even if they destroyed two great transit systems in the process)

That site is VERY annoying. Firefox automatically blocks the popup, but the site gives you a javascript message, saying you need to disable your popup blocker, then closes the damned page before you can actually tell it to allow popups for the site.

I'm sure it's impressive, but I'm not changing my behavior just to load it.

Simply holding down the Ctrl key when you click on the link in IE gets it to load.

I don't use IE. I have an unreasonable hatred for Microsoft products.

But Microsoft loves you

bahua wrote: That site is VERY annoying. Firefox automatically blocks the popup, but the site gives you a javascript message, saying you need to disable your popup blocker, then closes the damned page before you can actually tell it to allow popups for the site.

I'm sure it's impressive, but I'm not changing my behavior just to load it.

Works fine for me with Firefox 1.5.0.1 on Windows.  Popup blocker recognizes it's a requested popup and let's it go.

Strange that mine behaves differently.

voltopt wrote: just one!  and not just for history's sake or nostalgia, but because it works!  its light rail! we would at least have the infrastructure,  instead of now having to start from scratch. 

And this wasn't done decades ago either.  The trolly line from the Plaza to Waldo was torn out probably around 1995.  That would have been a perfect start to the system and would have been very quaint.  I still have no idea why it was torn out.  Complete waste!

David Rumsey:
  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 8UNN81.DTL
    My parents took me on the streetcar the last night of it's existence. We rode from Union Station to The end of the Line, and back down to the Station. The motorman let me sit in his lap. I was 5.  I can remember switch engines as late as '80 or so being in Westport. It wouldn't have been hard to Turn It ON Again.

Hum...I think I'd rather see a light rail line to start with.  Get people out of their homes first and transport them somewhere that they'd need other types of transit, like downtown.  Then there would be a crowd for something like a street car.  Also, street cars on tracks are very loud (ever been on one?  It's like trying to snowplow a dry parking lot) and slow.  Rail's a quite a bit faster.  Street cars have to stop at traffic lights and fight with cars.  Something with the right of way (light rail) would be quick.

I guess I'm comparing a DT Waldo route here.  I like the idea, but it doesn't really make travel from one end to the other any faster or easier then taking the Max.

But about why it was torn out...I never saw any of it, but if I had to guess, I'm betting it was expensive and needed work to keep running.  I know that in San Francisco, when it was proposed the cable cars be done away with, it was because of cost.  They cost a lot to maintain and the system needed a huge overhaul.  Some folks with larges purses got together and started a citizen fund-raising campaign to do the overhaul.  I remember seeing pictures--it was bad.

Kard wrote:   Also, street cars on tracks are very loud (ever been on one?  It's like trying to snowplow a dry parking lot) and slow.  Rail's a quite a bit faster.  Street cars have to stop at traffic lights and fight with cars.  Something with the right of way (light rail) would be quick.

the newish street cars in portland are not loud, and seem very clean and efficient. they remind me of the streetcars in prague, which are frequent and easy to use.
street cars are like buses, minus the noxious smells and irregularity of routes.  you are right that light rail is faster, but light rail is like an interstate highway, and streetcars are like arterial roads.
also, the cost to maintain electric streetcars is much less than cable cars.

voltopt wrote: the newish street cars in portland are not loud, and seem very clean and efficient. they remind me of the streetcars in prague, which are frequent and easy to use.
street cars are like buses, minus the noxious smells and irregularity of routes.  you are right that light rail is faster, but light rail is like an interstate highway, and streetcars are like arterial roads.
also, the cost to maintain electric streetcars is much less than cable cars.

I doubt we will get cable cars or street cars here in KC for at least another 15 years.

if that soon.
it would be nice...