KCRag Forum

KCMax wrote: Legends to downtown = 16 miles
TSC to downtown = 11 miles

I don't see a huge appreciable difference.

Not sure where the 11 mile distance you cite is coming from.  

According to Google Maps, the drive from from City Hall to the Truman Sports Complex is 7.9 miles.

The NASCAR track is twice as far as the Sports Complex from the metro's heart--an appreciable difference.  Especially when one considers that the comparatively close-in stadiums are scoffed at as being distant and isolated.

Sorry, I was looking at driving time. TSC is 11 minutes away, Legends is 21 minutes away. Ten minutes.

GRID wrote: Fixed your post.  KCK's image has not changed, if anything, it's gotten worse.

An area west of KCK near Bonner Springs and Edwardsville has a new image.  But other than the zip code being a KCK zip, I don't see how this has helped KCK as a whole much at all...

But most people don't think about that being Bonner Springs or Edwardsville.  To them it's still KCK, because technically it is.  So when they go to the Legends and talk about how great it is, it reflects well (in their minds) on KCK.

GRID wrote: Fixed your post.  KCK's image has not changed, if anything, it's gotten worse.

Couldn't disagree more - less than ten years ago "KCK" and "Wyandotte" were scary, four letter words for most metro residents with nothing remotely redeeming in most people's mind.  Residents of KCK/Wyandotte were probably pretty universally used to hearing "why would you want to live there?" everytime they told someone where they were from.  The inner-city of KCK may still be a long ways from being rehabilitated but I have no doubt that the overall image has massively improved.  Just the fact that people would bother to split hairs over inner city KCK v. the rest of KCK speaks volumes - no one would have thought it made much of a damn difference before.  Just people being able to say that they live or operate a business in KCK without everyone cringing was a massive first step on the road to full revitalization - if you had asked me several years ago, I would have said it was impossible. 

metro is right....leadership couldn't care less about the kck urban core...is there any question as to why 99% of the users on this site abhor the leadership and the outlet mall that is the legends?

LenexatoKCMO wrote: Couldn't disagree more - less than ten years ago "KCK" and "Wyandotte" were scary, four letter words for most metro residents with nothing remotely redeeming in most people's mind.  Residents of KCK/Wyandotte were probably pretty universally used to hearing "why would you want to live there?" everytime they told someone where they were from.  The inner-city of KCK may still be a long ways from being rehabilitated but I have no doubt that the overall image has massively improved.  Just the fact that people would bother to split hairs over inner city KCK v. the rest of KCK speaks volumes - no one would have thought it made much of a damn difference before.  Just people being able to say that they live or operate a business in KCK without everyone cringing was a massive first step on the road to full revitalization - if you had asked me several years ago, I would have said it was impossible.  

It's the same.

If you ask people about KCK or Wyandotte County, they will tell you they would not move there and they would tell you to think twice about it as well.

I'm not talking about Donahoo and 435 or 118th and Parallel (newer areas that still get 90% of their residents from existing KCK area residents wanting to stay in KCK).

I'm talking about any of the city east of 435.  Basically the entire damn city.  Most people that talk up the legends like it's an amazing place wouldn't even set foot in the same chain restaurants if they were located at 89th and Parallel or 67th and State, let alone 5th and Minnesota.

That's why KCK is still very ruralish is many areas east of 435 and there is zero infill going on except the water park (hard to call that infill) and whatever hotels etc go up around it.

People take 435 or 70 to State or 110th and go to the VW area.  They don't even see KCK.  That area is an extension of JoCo along 435.  That's all it is.  "KCK" May as well be in Iowa.

Western WyCo to KCK is like Shoal Creek is to KCMO.  Shoal Creek is Liberty even though it's technically KCMO.

chrizow wrote: i'd say that west KCK/Bonner Springs/Edwardsville's image (or, rather, reality) has gotten worse as well.  i'd rather see farmland, fields, and maybe low-impact development than unsustainable exuburban garbage.

Their image may be worse to you but it's obvious that image has been enhanced to the population at large.  I've long resigned myself to the fact that if I don't like something, the rest of the populace will love it (and vice versa).   

KCMax wrote: Legends to downtown = 16 miles
TSC to downtown = 11 miles

I don't see a huge appreciable difference.

My Point is people in some of the biggest MO side burbs will have to travel all the way across the city if they feel like going to a casino at VW.  Just pointing that fact out, its something we should all be aware of.  Nothing more, nothing less.

TSC to downtown, to Legends:
22.8 mi

rokhok wrote: Time from Lee's Summit to Harrah's: 31 minutes

Time from Lee's Summit to Kansas Speedway = 38 minutes

Rokhok, I am merely pointing out that its an additional amount of travel time (in this case 7 more minutes).  While it may not seem like much, we must remember that for every additional minute you add to the travel time, X amount of customers are lost.

That said, I completely understand where you're coming from and the point you make.  Not that I disagree, but I like to point out the most simple, basic facts & tidbits here and there...even if there is no right answer (as with locations).  Its something (Travel time from the opposite side of the metro) that we cannot change, but should not completely forget (as it greatly impacts who will become a customer).

im2kull wrote: every additional mile east you go, is additional time it takes for someone to travel to VW.  Regardless of the route taken, there becomes a point where someone 15 or 20 miles away will only visit maybe once every 4 years, versus once every month.  Its a purely distance related thing.  That's the sole reason I wonder just how big a Boon this will be for the VW area. 

You seem to equate distance traveled to driving time.  For someone in South KC the travel time to VW isn't that much greater than  to Harrah's or Ameristar.  Throw in the food choices at the VW area compared to the other casino's and you have a winner.  And it just might be a shorter travel time than taking the bus to downtown.  Plus you also seem to assume one casino is the same as another.  It's odd, people do prefer one over others for whatever rational or irrational reason they might have (I hit a big jackpot there, I like the selection of games there, I like the dealers there, etc.).

Much like someone has said about P&L in the past, if every area resident averages one visit a year to the place it will be a success.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: You seem to equate distance traveled to driving time.

I base my Driving time on what Google says, not on distance traveled.  Generally more distance traveled is more driving time, though there are exceptions. 

My examples are talking about the SE (Blue Springs, Raytown, Indep) and NE burbs (Liberty, Gladstone, etc) not the Southern most ones (Lower KC, etc).  I'm not debating anything concerning the area in, around, or south of 47th street..as my example lies solely with those areas located further east.

I have found a fellow Poster, lurking on Gary Lezak's Weather Blog:

 
mgsports said:
I hope for none of the above only if it means if we get 3 thru 5 get to watch the coverage on TV even on KMCI in HD but not on Comcast because it doesn't carry it yet and KSHB Weather Plus.
Just for fun I would say Ice to the North,the Middle Severe Weather and Blizzard like conditions to the South.
I perfer Warm Weather.
December 4, 2009 8:58 PM

Sarah Palin!

im2kull wrote: My Point is people in some of the biggest MO side burbs will have to travel all the way across the city if they feel like going to a casino at VW.  Just pointing that fact out, its something we should all be aware of.  Nothing more, nothing less.

TSC to downtown, to Legends:
22.8 mi

Sure, and Johnson Countians will have to drive half an hour to get to the casinos up north. Anything that is not in the central urban core is going to be a haul for some suburban residents.

After reading and participating in the "distance" debate, I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority are going to hold on to their bias no matter the facts and that it really doesn't matter anyway because the market will decide.  I think that in the noble pursuit of development perfection, we have somehow lost the fact that the we are not in a planned economy and the market will decide.  So this whole debate ends up being:




At the end of the day, it's all sugar water and you like one over the other because of your background and marketing....

the kind of person who frequents casinos in KC is probably 100% fine with driving 20-40 minutes to do anything. 

Renderings released today:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking ... 34870.html

good lord.... i'm guessing part of this is the rendering style, but...how blandly can you design a casino? 

It looks like an oversized community center in the suburbs.

ComandanteCero wrote: good lord.... i'm guessing part of this is the rendering style, but...how blandly can you design a casino? 

It looks like an oversized community center in the suburbs.

It looks like that movie theater that used to be at 119th and Metcalf.

ComandanteCero wrote: good lord.... i'm guessing part of this is the rendering style, but...how blandly can you design a casino? 

It looks like an oversized community center in the suburbs.

I thought it looked like your typical big, fancy, suburban, multiplex movie theater - I guess that fits well with the theme but I would agree that it doesn't just jump off the page at you like a casino.  

KCMax wrote: It looks like that movie theater that used to be at 119th and Metcalf.

Dickinson SouthGlen.