OFFICIAL: Proposed KCK Casino

[rokhok]

im2kull,

Hate may have been strong and I wasn't meaning just you but a more general comment about many posters.

I get the fact that this isn't infill like you would have downtown but it is in the sense that they are adding an attraction to an existing entertainment area as opposed to picking yet another location and starting from scratch... which if compared to any of the existing casinos in KC is better.  In fact, none of the existing ones have really had any development around them which the exception of the hotel across the street from Argosy.  They remain isolated islands.

If the Hollywood people do it right they will have shuttles not only to the local hotels but also to the bar district at VW on a regular basis.

I admit that the plan is not perfect by far, but given the constraints that are in place, I think it is a viable plan that has every reason to succeed.  Just because the Isle of Capri was here first doesn't mean that it has the right to survive forever, especially given how little they have done with their incumbency to improve the attraction.  Competition in this space in a lot of ways will be good as the stakes will be raised.

If I had my way, ALL the local casinos would be in one central district (ala Vegas / Atlantic City).  But that didn't happen and we have to judge this new project on the merits of the reality of the current casino environment in KC and not on some perfect ideal.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Just because the Isle of Capri was here first doesn't mean that it has the right to survive forever, especially given how little they have done with their incumbency to improve the attraction. 

Can't fully blaime them - they have allegedly wanted to expand for years but were jerked around by MoDot for ages about where they could or couldn't grow.  Now that the road layout is finalized, it will be interesting to see if they follow through once the economy perks back up.  It is the smallest, dumpiest, property in their portfolio and they have acknowledged in the past that it wasn't up to their intended standards. 

[NDTeve]

rokhok...
Fully admit I was wrong by not reading the article more clearly. Was just more excited for the $650M version with the Hard Rock Hotel/Casino. But, blame goes on the economy...not on KCK.

[KCPowercat]

personally I would have liked this downtown kck...give that area a boost and could have gotten quite a crowd from all the kcmo tourists...instead kck took the easy way out and built it out there instead of trying something to build up their forgotten core....THAT is infill.

[im2kull]

im2kull,

Hate may have been strong and I wasn't meaning just you but a more general comment about many posters.

I get the fact that this isn't infill like you would have downtown but it is in the sense that they are adding an attraction to an existing entertainment area as opposed to picking yet another location and starting from scratch... which if compared to any of the existing casinos in KC is better.  In fact, none of the existing ones have really had any development around them which the exception of the hotel across the street from Argosy.  They remain isolated islands.

Oh believe me, I know what you're saying.  Don't take anything I say too personal, as I like to give a varying viewpoint on everything besides the sports threads.  I agree with much of what you have to say, thanks for posting!

[im2kull]

Far better for chumps from outside the metro to toss away their money here than chumps from inside.  Hopefully this location will draw chumps from further afield. 

I could see most of their revenue coming from outside the general metro area (Especially once they get a hotel built), with how close it will be to I70, and all the Nascar/Other Racing event fans that are bound to be in the area (At least for a few days of the year if nothing else).

[aknowledgeableperson]

I agree that it could be a plus for the area, I just wonder how big of one.  It's quite a ways out to go toss away some money, for most kansas citians. 

Given that it is close to 435 and 70 it isn't that far away.  You make it sound like it is in the middle of Nowhere.  Just remember, Nowhere isn't that distant from the center of the area.

[im2kull]

Given that it is close to 435 and 70 it isn't that far away.  You make it sound like it is in the middle of Nowhere.  Just remember, Nowhere isn't that distant from the center of the area.

Nor is it anywhere near the "Center" of the city, let alone the population center of the city.  Certaintly its just a stone throws distance for those living on the KS side of things, but remember that every additional mile east you go, is additional time it takes for someone to travel to VW.  Regardless of the route taken, there becomes a point where someone 15 or 20 miles away will only visit maybe once every 4 years, versus once every month.  Its a purely distance related thing.  That's the sole reason I wonder just how big a Boon this will be for the VW area.  I don't think it can suceed purely on local, and race related money.  I have a feeling they're going to need additional income from somewhere, which is why being next to I70 is a perk to say the least.

Ex. just because I want White Castles doesn't mean I'll be driving out to STL anytime soon.


..I have a feeling we're not on the same page, so I'll try and explain my thoughts on this a little further..

I70 for me represents the least traveled highway in this city by city residents themselves, but it does represent the largest path that visitors to our city take.  I35 is clearly next, from the north & south, whereas 435 is mostly once again KC area residents.  Point being every East-West traveler passing through KC will see the casino, whereas most residents can pick & choose their routes in, around, and about the city (taking them first by many other casinos/entertainment areas).  That's it..There's no true right or wrong, so I'll leave it at that.

[KCPowercat]

Given that it is close to 435 and 70 it isn't that far away.  You make it sound like it is in the middle of Nowhere.  Just remember, Nowhere isn't that distant from the center of the area.

yeah you are right, it's FURTHER from most of the metro big burbs than if you were measuring from 64105.

[im2kull]

yeah you are right, it's FURTHER from most of the metro big burbs than if you were measuring from 64105.

Hit the nail on the head.

All the biggest KCMO side Burbs are a good distance away...
(Draw 2 diagonal lines across a KC area map for their locations)

Lee's Summit..Blue Springs.. Indep.. Raytown.. Liberty.. Excelsior Springs.. Smithville.
..They're all Completely on the other side of the Metro.

What's it close to?
Shawnee, Mission, & kinda OP.  2 1/2 Major KS side suburbs.  Remember, Travel times become quite large once you reach out to lower OP/Olathe...which is another HUGE population center this will be missing out on.

[KCMax]

Legends to downtown = 16 miles
TSC to downtown = 11 miles

I don't see a huge appreciable difference.

[rokhok]

im2kull,

You are going to start thinking that I am picking on you, so I apologize in advance.  However, you are perpetuating a myth:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source= ... 89206&z=11

Time from Lee's Summit to Harrah's: 31 minutes

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source= ... 89206&z=11

Time from Lee's Summit to Kansas Speedway = 38 minutes

I think it would be reasonable to assume that the casino / area that offers the best experience could draw people from Lee's summit with no problems due to travel time with that little of a difference...  And the comparison even flips once you look at Leawood, Southern OP and Olathe....

Hit the nail on the head.

All the biggest KCMO side Burbs are a good distance away...
(Draw 2 diagonal lines across a KC area map for their locations)

Lee's Summit..Blue Springs.. Indep.. Raytown.. Liberty.. Excelsior Springs.. Smithville.
..They're all Completely on the other side of the Metro.

What's it close to?
Shawnee, Mission, & kinda OP.  2 1/2 Major KS side suburbs.  Remember, Travel times become quite large once you reach out to lower OP/Olathe...which is another HUGE population center this will be missing out on.

[NDTeve]

You're missing the crossing the State Line dynamic. People equate Kansas with DUI's.

[KCPowercat]

I am not understanding the comparisons to kcmo casinos and tsc....defending a poor location choice by comparing it to other poorly chosen locations?

[LenexatoKCMO]

I am not understanding the comparisons to kcmo casinos and tsc....defending a poor location choice by comparing it to other poorly chosen locations?

I think the argument was that it would fail because it was too far away from everybody.  Hence the rebuttal that for much of the city, it isn't noticeably further than the competition. 

[KCPowercat]

I do think it is a bit further from the mass of suburbis but not enough to make any difference....the size and quality will probably be why they succeed or fail.

[GRID]

It's not going to fail.  It will be the primary casino for the KS side of the metro area and some MO side residents.  It will do quite well.  Just like Village West and everything else that is built out there, KS side residents will think it's the best thing since sliced bread and most will avoid the MO casinos from that point on.  That's the reason I'm quite amazed that LV based casinos are not licking their chops to get into Kansas.  They would have ONE casino in nearly half a market of over 2 million people while 4 casinos fight over the other half.

I was just hopping for something more than just another average midwestern casino slapped onto the side of the speedway.  Why does it even have to be part of the race track?  The track doesn't need a freaking casino.  That will only make it look tacky as hell.   I thought they should have went with the Pinacle in the first place.

Blame the economy or whatever, but KCK really lost out on this one.

And if anybody thinks that casino will draw people from outside the area they are are crazy.  It will only intercept the people from outstate KS that go to the MO casinos or take some away from the indian casinos.

EVERY Market has casinos now.  It's time to quit acting like these things are economic booms that bring visitors.

I personally think they suck, are boring, smell like smoke and impact attendance at other attractions, but the one time a year we go to a casino, it's going to be the biggest one that has the most too offer.

No more casinos in KC though.  Please, no more.  I hated the idea of a casino on 291 and the MO river.  

BTW, what is KCK or Kansas getting out of this casino project?  Is KCK going to fix their center city up?  Build an aquarium at Kaw Point?  Build a trolley line or something?  Or is KCK going to remain a total joke east of 435 while every other secondary city with such proximity to a major city finds ways to at least attempt to bring back their urban core.

[kcmetro]

BTW, what is KCK or Kansas getting out of this casino project?  Is KCK going to fix their center city up?  Build an aquarium at Kaw Point?  Build a trolley line or something?  Or is KCK going to remain a total joke east of 435 while every other secondary city with such proximity to a major city finds ways to at least attempt to bring back their urban core.

I don't think the decision makers in KCK are worried about the inner city.  They're probably more concerned with re-inventing KCK's image as a safe, white, shopping mecca for the KS suburbs.  There's more money to be made and growth to occur if they build on that, instead of trying to redevelop the inner city.  They probably wouldn't mind just letting old KCK rot, while focusing on developing everything west of 435.  So yeah, it probably will remain a joke east of 435.

[GRID]

I don't think the decision makers in KCK are worried about the inner city.  They're probably more concerned with re-inventing KCK's Bonner Spring's image as a safe, white, shopping mecca for the KS suburbs.  There's more money to be made and growth to occur if they build on that, instead of trying to redevelop the inner city.  They probably wouldn't mind just letting old KCK rot, while focusing on developing everything west of 435.  So yeah, it probably will remain a joke east of 435.

Fixed your post.  KCK's image has not changed, if anything, it's gotten worse.

An area west of KCK near Bonner Springs and Edwardsville has a new image.  But other than the zip code being a KCK zip, I don't see how this has helped KCK as a whole much at all...

[chrizow]

KCK's image has not changed, if anything, it's gotten worse.

i'd say that west KCK/Bonner Springs/Edwardsville's image (or, rather, reality) has gotten worse as well.  i'd rather see farmland, fields, and maybe low-impact development than unsustainable exuburban garbage.