OFFICIAL: Port Authority Riverfront Project

[GRID]

There has already been a streetcar in place for some time with limited development along the route (at least large projects from out of town developers). In the current climate, there is no way Cordish will pull the trigger on their big plans just south of 670 for example.

[earthling]

I wouldn't call it limited. Not at the pace of faster growing markets but housing development along line has been pretty good. With far more services/entertainment along RCP corridor, should draw broader interest than the initial starter line. The concern is overstated but the anti-dev crowd is annoying and will manage to slow some things down. Won't matter once extensions are running. Lack of proper TOD approach along streetcar is more of a concern.

[AlkaliAxel]

My best hope right now is that we get the World Cup bid and that gets momentum & confidence going again.

Because city has managed to kill that confidence from Jan-May 2022. Started with Mac.

[KCPowercat]

Come off the ledge everyone. It's okay to ask more of developers who are running to the city with their hands out.

[CrossroadsUrbanApts]

Come off the ledge everyone. It's okay to ask more of developers who are running to the city with their hands out.

Sure - but when developers propose plans that meet those new asks, but the goalposts just move further and they get denied anyway, it makes it clear that the process isn't operated in good faith.

[KCPowercat]

There is obviously more going on with that than just affordable housing. Doesn't seem the disclosures were in good faith either according to kcur.

The discussion today is way beyond this one project.

[CrossroadsUrbanApts]

I agree with your point and it is dangerous to extrapolate too much from one data point. Personally I'll have my doubts about Lux Living until they have one successful project in town. For all I know they are a bad actor or incapable of actually pulling off any of the projects they've announced (and could their name be any worse?).

I think the Mac project on Main is a different story and having them shelve that project (even temporarily) is a big loss. Same with 3rd and Grand. That group has more projects in the queue but a loss like this means they probably re-focus on Johnson County rather than keep fighting KCMO. I know I've written off LCRA and PIEA incentives for my own projects until the ordinance is fixed.

[TheLastGentleman]

For projects seeking incentives or other public assistance, I would like to see information showing the breakdown of why the incentives are necessary. I always hear people say “this project can’t pencil out without incentives” but I never see proof of that.

For instance, I totally understand and support incentives for historic building renovations, because I understand how unpredictable the costs of those projects can be, and they have a public benefit by saving historic resources. However, a simple five-over-one stick frame apartment building receiving govt incentives raises questions. Questions that could be answered through some sort of cost breakdown.

If info like that is available somewhere for incentivized projects, I’d love to know where to find it

[daGOAT]

The streetcar and pandemic raised constructions cost but rents in Kansas City are really low compared to other cities. The fact that the city won't offset cost or risk WILL kill development downtown. All we'll see for the next few years is mixed income 5 over 1's on the Eastside as the Northside booms.

Totally agree with @thelastgentlemen tho if the developers provide paperwork with their numbers it could show a different side from CPC or PIEA. Really a lot of developers in KC have taken advantage of incentives in the past but out the same respect its been the only way KC has made any progress in the pas.

[CrossroadsUrbanApts]

For projects seeking incentives or other public assistance, I would like to see information showing the breakdown of why the incentives are necessary. I always hear people say “this project can’t pencil out without incentives” but I never see proof of that.

For instance, I totally understand and support incentives for historic building renovations, because I understand how unpredictable the costs of those projects can be, and they have a public benefit by saving historic resources. However, a simple five-over-one stick frame apartment building receiving govt incentives raises questions. Questions that could be answered through some sort of cost breakdown.

If info like that is available somewhere for incentivized projects, I’d love to know where to find it

I think the independent financial analyses ("but for tests") are published somewhere, no? As part of the record that goes to the LCRA or PIEA? I'm not sure.

Five-over-one apartment buildings are running at $200K+ hard costs at the moment. Sure, a fair amount of that cost is in the first floor retail/amenity/garage part. Unabated property taxes can be 35%-45% of total operating costs for a building. The largest single line item by far. The market for employee salaries, utilities, contract services (trash, janitorial, etc.) and management fees are outside the control of the developer. Reducing the tax expense can take a 4%-5% return on cost up to a 6%-7% return on cost and make a project feasible.

[AlkaliAxel]

KC actually had been doing pretty well according to the reports on absorption and new supply. The growth had been pretty good recently, and blowing away the rest of the Midwest along with Minn & Chicago. So I'm not saying we've been in a hellhole for a long time. This is very recent.

The problem I'm talking about has been this year. Everything has started screeching to a halt the last few weeks. So whatever KC had been doing was pretty good- until recently. That needs to change quickly. And again, I hope we can get the World Cup and that'll energize city officials to get shit going for 2026.

[daGOAT]

KC actually had been doing pretty well according to the reports on absorption and new supply. The growth had been pretty good recently, and blowing away the rest of the Midwest along with Minn & Chicago. So I'm not saying we've been in a hellhole for a long time. This is very recent.

The problem I'm talking about has been this year. Everything has started screeching to a halt the last few weeks. So whatever KC had been doing was pretty good- until recently. That needs to change quickly. And again, I hope we can get the World Cup and that'll energize city officials to get shit going for 2026.

Offsetting cost with incentives is all they did... Sly James ignored the school district numerous times and got results lol. They did shoot down incentives for a project ton 18th and Holmes, which was dumb because that little bodega could use some residents and it would be right next to the budding Keystone Innovation District.

[GRID]

KC actually had been doing pretty well according to the reports on absorption and new supply. The growth had been pretty good recently, and blowing away the rest of the Midwest along with Minn & Chicago. So I'm not saying we've been in a hellhole for a long time. This is very recent.

The problem I'm talking about has been this year. Everything has started screeching to a halt the last few weeks. So whatever KC had been doing was pretty good- until recently. That needs to change quickly. And again, I hope we can get the World Cup and that'll energize city officials to get shit going for 2026.

That's because KC is at the end of the incentive boom where developers all got in their plans before the new rules took place. So that kind of made KC look better for a bit due to the rush, but now KC is entering a dark place where nothing is really in the development pipeline at all and the few that were trying to happen have had major setbacks which will only scare away more potential developers. It could take years to fix the problem and then more years for developers to ramp back up again in KC.

[AlkaliAxel]

KC actually had been doing pretty well according to the reports on absorption and new supply. The growth had been pretty good recently, and blowing away the rest of the Midwest along with Minn & Chicago. So I'm not saying we've been in a hellhole for a long time. This is very recent.

The problem I'm talking about has been this year. Everything has started screeching to a halt the last few weeks. So whatever KC had been doing was pretty good- until recently. That needs to change quickly. And again, I hope we can get the World Cup and that'll energize city officials to get shit going for 2026.

That's because KC is at the end of the incentive boom where developers all got in their plans before the new rules took place. So that kind of made KC look better for a bit due to the rush, but now KC is entering a dark place where nothing is really in the development pipeline at all and the few that were trying to happen have had major setbacks which will only scare away more potential developers. It could take years to fix the problem and then more years for developers to ramp back up again in KC.

Most of the plans that were filed before the rule changes haven't even started yet

[AlkaliAxel]

Easy now. I understand the recent doom here for the city. They're falling on their face this year. But they had been doing well, and it's not solely because of incentives or rushes. They made smart investments with the streetcar and other downtown initiatives that was boosting growth. They were doing legitimately well in the city. The original city boundary lines grew for the first time since the 1940s- that means for 10+ years KC has been doing the right thing and growing. They just need to straighten the ship. Don't over-do it and take it too far with the gloom.

[daGOAT]

KC actually had been doing pretty well according to the reports on absorption and new supply. The growth had been pretty good recently, and blowing away the rest of the Midwest along with Minn & Chicago. So I'm not saying we've been in a hellhole for a long time. This is very recent.

The problem I'm talking about has been this year. Everything has started screeching to a halt the last few weeks. So whatever KC had been doing was pretty good- until recently. That needs to change quickly. And again, I hope we can get the World Cup and that'll energize city officials to get shit going for 2026.

That's because KC is at the end of the incentive boom where developers all got in their plans before the new rules took place. So that kind of made KC look better for a bit due to the rush, but now KC is entering a dark place where nothing is really in the development pipeline at all and the few that were trying to happen have had major setbacks which will only scare away more potential developers. It could take years to fix the problem and then more years for developers to ramp back up again in KC.

Most of the plans that were filed before the rule changes haven't even started yet

That's because the Sly James administration built the momentum you are seeing. You're watching the well run dry lil bro.

[AlkaliAxel]

That's because the Sly James administration built the momentum you are seeing. You're watching the well run dry lil bro.

Don't tell me. Tell the mayor and council.

I think it's a bump in the road. An adjustment period. The Plaza, for example, is still doing well with development. It's just the downtown area that's being whacked right now.

[daGOAT]

That's because the Sly James administration built the momentum you are seeing. You're watching the well run dry lil bro.

Don't tell me. Tell the mayor and council.

Why? I'm not even a resident anymore and most of them will either ignore me or respond negatively on Twitter. If anything the people on this forum, you included, should be more pro active, like KC Tenants seem to be. I'm doing my part by trying to get equity from SoCal into the city and showing my friends and family what is possible with a little ambition and intellect.

[AlkaliAxel]

It seems to me that Mayor Q loves & will do anything for public projects (stadium, world cup, airport, south loop cap, etc) but then on the flip side he doesn't give a shit about private projects. Specifically housing.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

It seems to me that Mayor Q loves & will do anything for public projects (stadium, world cup, airport, south loop cap, etc) but then on the flip side he doesn't give a shit about private projects. Specifically housing.

Hard to say you did anything or put your name on private developments.