austin, texas.

[ignatius]

I had an older sister there and my younger brother went to UT - both eventually moved to KC and preferred it here (we are from STL).  I've been many times.  Austin is probably more attractive to the 20-something and college crowd as I didn't find it very appealing to the 30+ crowd, but I liked my visits well enough.  My sister who once lived there is an artist and came to KC for a more 'mature' arts scene and the reasonable cost of living.  She found Austin to be energetic but shallow and vain.  She thought of the arts scene as 'academic' at best.

I thought it was an OK town but ultimately just a really big college town.  UT is the largest (2nd largest?) college in the US.

[Boognish]

i don't want to step on toes, but probably there are more 20-something-kids-who-want-to-be-harvey-pekar-in-austin, and more lonely-middle-aged-fringe-lunatics-who've-never-heard-of-harvey-pekar-but-have-more-in-common-with-him-than-trendoid-austinkiddies in kc.
does that make sense?
let me put it this way, i don't like austin.  i didn't like even when it was still supposedly cool ('90-'95 r.i.p.).  i don't like any of the flavor of the month cities (i'm looking at you portland).  and i don't like college towns.  i'm not trying to shit on anyone, i had fun the first 2 years i was in lawrence for college, but you grow out of it.  austin might hold one's interest till about 25, but it's still just a college town, mired in childish facial hair experiments and frat bar culture. and austin's musical heyday is long, long gone.  a sort of organic anti-nashville country music flower has wilted away under the glare of press kits for sxsw and the droves of mediocrity that follow the lights.
i'm only 27, so i'm a little way from the supposed doldrums of middle age, and already college towns bore the shit out of me.  and especially if they're in texas, because even in austin, you can't wash that off a person.  the silly college football obsession of people who've never been to college, the non-stop texas-is-bigger shit, i just don't like those fuckers.  in fact if i had to pick the two most full-of-shit, boring, uninteresting, predictable, annoying and embarrassing groups of people in america i would choose texans and college kids. so a texas sized college town doesn't do it for me.
the point being, i wouldn't trade all the street life in the world for having to share a street with those people.  i'll take a failed, sleepy, blighted, fat, fucked up kansas city over austin, texas any day.  in fact, i'd take houston over austin, and that is as damning a thing as i can think of to say.
i understand envying the "vibrancy",  but if vibrancy just means "21-25-year-old-kids"  i guess i don't think its that cool.  not that there's no place for that.  i'm sure austin or madison is a fun place to spend 4 years of your life and an untold quantity of your parents' money,  but i don't think of them as model cities.  ditto the "creative class" magnet cities everybody raves about.  it'd be silly to say i think kansas city is "more fun" than ausitn...but i have more fun here,  where i don't have to dress ironically yet i can still avoid the adult fratboys.  i think harvey pekar is on my side of that fence.  and we're not alone.

new bumpersticker: "keep kansas city uncool"

I can't agree with this enough. Trendy cities are the ultimate consumer experience, like getting a prepackaged cool lifestyle. Gag me.

Edit: I should probably follow this up by saying that if Kansas City does in fact become the next Denver or Austin or Portland or whatever, I will probably move to Chicago, Detroit, or Cleveland, or some place so covered with grime and ghosts and history that they will never uncover me. (I mentioned in a previous post that I can envision spending my life riding one step ahead of displaced Californians like a wave, until I reached Nova Scotia.)

[KCN]

The more I move around, the more I hope Kansas City does become a Denver or Austin.  Yeah grit is great, frat is bad and all that.  But when I go to Denver and Austin, I almost always meet new people.  All the new people moving to these cities seem very eager to meet new people and seem quite friendly.  It's very difficult to get yourself out in cities like Cincinnati and St. Louis, where everyone has their established circles.  In fact my opinion of Cincinnati drops every day I am here.  Yeah the architecture and urbanity is wonderful, but who cares about that when no one will give you the time of day.

[bahua]

Play kickball. It makes even the most boring introverted cities exciting.

[chingon]

sorry i didn't get back to you sooner, chrizow.  i've been in philly for a week.  let me just say this, in my absence trailerkid has been speaking my exact thoughts (with frightening alacrity).  but i really meant what i said when i said i didn't want to step on toes.  you have an opinion.  many, many, many people (some of whom i like/respect) share that opinion.  its just an opinion that i think is a little juvenile and pretty pedestrian.  once again, not a personal judgement about you.

p.s. - trailerkid, did you just name check errol morris?  because, if so, i think i will marry you, no matter what the missouri state constitution says. 
p.p.s. - everyone's invited to the reception/turkey hunt in vernon, florida.

[chrizow]

i realize that different people have different ideal sorts of cities, but to call my opinion "juvenile and pedestrian" is kind of insulting.  the fact you follow it up with "once again, not a personal judgment" only reinforces the personal judgment made in the preceding sentence.

austin is definitely not my ideal city, but it was cool being in a healthy, vibrant city where people have a positive attitude about the city.  meanwhile, i can barely get some of my high school friends to drive 10 minutes to KCMO to go out. 

[chingon]

it is a critique of your opinion, which i disagree with in the ways i feel i've elucidated.  it is not an insult to you as a person, or a judgement of your intellectual capabilities.  its an honest evaluation of what i think are some weak points in your argument.  namely, i think there is a time in peoples lives when these sort of ideas about place are so irrevocably muddled by the cocktail of youthful wanderlust and american manifest destiny that they become kind of predictable and not all that grounded in reality.  it certainly has happened to me on more than one occasion, and i think if you spend a little time (by which i mean a few years) in any of the places you've mentioned, you'll know exactly what i'm talking about.  but i could be wrong. 
also, its friday, man.  why the fuck aren't you out?

[chrizow]

also, its friday, man.  why the fuck aren't you out?

because i don't live in austin. 

[Deleted User]

.

[Thrillcekr]

it is a critique of your opinion, which i disagree with in the ways i feel i've elucidated.  it is not an insult to you as a person, or a judgement of your intellectual capabilities.  its an honest evaluation of what i think are some weak points in your argument.  namely, i think there is a time in peoples lives when these sort of ideas about place are so irrevocably muddled by the cocktail of youthful wanderlust and american manifest destiny that they become kind of predictable and not all that grounded in reality.  it certainly has happened to me on more than one occasion, and i think if you spend a little time (by which i mean a few years) in any of the places you've mentioned, you'll know exactly what i'm talking about.  but i could be wrong. 
also, its friday, man.  why the fuck aren't you out?

I think you hit the nail right on the head with your assessment of Austin.  I mean, I don't really hate it with a passion but I've never been blown away by it either.  It's definitely nothing more than just a huge college town. 

Chrizow is a college kid that loves college towns so it's no surprise that his opinion of Austin would be much different than yours.  I loved the same kind of shit when I was his age.  I'll bet if he went back 10 or 15 years from now his attitude about the place would be totally different though.

[Highlander]

I think you hit the nail right on the head with your assessment of Austin.  I mean, I don't really hate it with a passion but I've never been blown away by it either.  It's definitely nothing more than just a huge college town. 

Chrizow is a college kid that loves college towns so it's no surprise that his opinion of Austin would be much different than yours.  I loved the same kind of shit when I was his age.  I'll bet if he went back 10 or 15 years from now his attitude about the place would be totally different though.

College towns are great places to live while you are in college and can be nice places to visit afterwards.  What I do not like about college towns is that they never turn off until the summer.....quite a bit of frantic activity (e.g., traffic) at all hours.  Lawrence is similar. 

Austin also has the great misfortune of being so deep in Texas, it requires at least a five hour drive to get out of that damn state even by the shortest route.

[bahua]

Yeah, Texas is definitely a "flying" state. Driving there is like driving to another country, because of the unbelievable distances.

[KCN]

When I was driving from College Station to Colorado last summer, it took me 9 1/2 hours to leave Texas alone! 

Also, a bit of interesting trivia......El Paso is closer to the Pacific Ocean than it is to Beaumont, and Beamont is closer to the Atlantic than it is to El Paso.

[bahua]

I-10, I believe, winds through Texas the long way, for more than 800 miles. That's ridiculous. That's one state.

[Highlander]

I-10, I believe, winds through Texas the long way, for more than 800 miles. That's ridiculous. That's one state.

For those who think Kansas is flat and desolate, I challenge them to drive the length of I-10. 

[KCN]

Yeah 880 miles which insane.  For reference, that's Topeka to Pittsburgh, PA.

Of course being that big brings a ton of geographical diversity, which is definitely one of the highlights of Texas.  Mountains, desert, plains, hills, swampland, forest, and beach.  Makes for a great vacation spot.

[Highlander]

Yeah 880 miles which insane.  For reference, that's Topeka to Pittsburgh, PA.

Of course being that big brings a ton of geographical diversity, which is definitely one of the highlights of Texas.  Mountains, desert, plains, hills, swampland, forest, and beach.  Makes for a great vacation spot.

Yep, a whole nuther country.    (or so their ads from about 10 years ago claimed)

[FangKC]

https://twitter.com/Cobylefko/status/16 ... 74947?s=20

[smh]

https://twitter.com/Cobylefko/status/16 ... 74947?s=20

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing Fang. I think this is a challenge in KC as well. Obviously would welcome the level of development being seen in Austin (with a few caveats) but we have to continue emphasizing the importance of ground level activation and variety. Even in a dense place, people will resist walking if the experience is uncomfortable/boring/etc.

[TheLastGentleman]

A lot of American downtowns still haven't broken the stigma of being essentially treated like skyscraper office park financial districts for the last 50 years. As such, developers continue building structures that pretend no living person will ever walk past them, even as these districts get more residents and visitors