KCRag Forum

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:33 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:10 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:15 pm Cordish and Target have a unofficial agreement that Target prefers to be in the PNL district…

This is disputed.

Doesn’t DCole actively work directly with cordish though?

It’s not disputed that Cordosh THINKS they have an agreement with Target and that they want to be in P&L. It’s disputed if this is really the case from Targets perspective and that they aren’t looking at other locations and having strong conversations with other properties and developments. Sometimes developers put out a narrative, either directly or through their operatives, that they want to take hold to benefit themselves. So, if people start saying, “But, I heard that Target was going in the P&L District!” that’s a good thing for them. Just might not be the case.

Target is not going to P&L. Despite what they might think is an unofficial agreement, i have it on good authority that target has not entertained that idea for well over a year now.

Developersanonymous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 am Target is not going to P&L. Despite what they might think is an unofficial agreement, i have it on good authority that target has not entertained that idea for well over a year now.

Well, it should. That would be the best place for it for downtown residents. Every other good downtown has one or a store like it.

From all the urban targets I have seen, I don't see them going downtown. At least not with one of their larger urban stores. They might do a very small neighborhood target in the the loop. Target will likely be a part of a larger development in crossroads or midtown.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:41 pm

Developersanonymous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 am Target is not going to P&L. Despite what they might think is an unofficial agreement, i have it on good authority that target has not entertained that idea for well over a year now.

Well, it should. That would be the best place for it for downtown residents. Every other good downtown has one or a store like it.

I don’t think it matters as long as it’s in the streetcar line. I’d prefer a larger store with more offerings not available in the city vs a smaller urban store. If I were Target, I’d put it next to UMKC. You’d have a better worker pool, lots of sales to college students and still give accessibility to anyone in DT.

Target is rolling out new urban stores as small as 15K sqft in Madison, Pittsburgh 22K, Detroit 32K (smaller than Cosentinos) and up to 75K for Midtown STL. Some early stores in Chicago as small as 12K sqft. Could go anywhere along RCP corridor but downtown significantly lacks retail is growing and has a decent median income so would think there or maybe Midtown over UMKC/Plaza. Who knows.

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:13 pm Target is rolling out new urban stores as small as 15K sqft in Madison, Pittsburgh 22K, Detroit 32K (smaller than Cosentinos) and up to 75K for Midtown STL. Some early stores in Chicago as small as 12K sqft. Could go anywhere along RCP corridor but downtown significantly lacks retail so would think there or Midtown over UMKC/Plaza. Who knows.

Agreed. Bottom line, we need to get more stores downtown, or atleast in Midtown. I really want the loop filling up with more retail specifically. UMKC already has the Plaza, brand new Whole Foods, and another slew of stores on Main/Wornall within walking distance.

^And Plaza is getting Amazon 4-Star store.

Just throwing this out there, but are they concerned about getting it staffed & keeping it staffed if it were a true downtown/P&L location. Obviously lots of people drive to downtown to work. But Target's labor pool is a bit different along with pay that might mean labor would be more dependent on public transportation or have to drive in from surrounding areas. Rent within the River Market/Downtown/Crossroads area might price out a $10-15 per hr worker, let alone the part time staff all retail strives on. Plus with suburban locations you tap into the HS school aged labor which is not readily present in the area. Just thinking of things that might put a wrinkle on plans that at face value seem like a no brainer but in practicality are trikier than they appear.

Does having a Target DT help or hinder true retail critical
mass? I’d rather see a bunch of smaller retail spaces that meet the needs than a big box. I guess I don’t think a Target at UMKC poaches as much retail business as it would DT. College students are going to shop for cheap furnishings for their dorms. A Target there wouldn’t take business from some other store in the core but probably another Target in their parents suburb.

I guess it depends on the square footage and what they stock. Online shopping is so ubiquitous and kc is still so car oriented, I don’t think this will change buying habits that much.

As long as they keep it urban, it’s just another option. I wish kc had a more bodega or small market style set up, but I think most people use cvs, dgx, cosentinos, or the suburbs on their way home.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:39 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:33 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:10 am
This is disputed.

Doesn’t DCole actively work directly with cordish though?

It’s not disputed that Cordosh THINKS they have an agreement with Target and that they want to be in P&L. It’s disputed if this is really the case from Targets perspective and that they aren’t looking at other locations and having strong conversations with other properties and developments. Sometimes developers put out a narrative, either directly or through their operatives, that they want to take hold to benefit themselves. So, if people start saying, “But, I heard that Target was going in the P&L District!” that’s a good thing for them. Just might not be the case.

There’s nothing on paper and Cordish doesn’t have any issue if they pick a different location. What I mean is Target wants to be in or as close to PNL as possible for the particular format of store they prefer to put in. If this means just across the interstate, it’s a win for both. If they decide to go for a larger footprint store it obviously won’t be in PNL. Executives from both companies have a close working relationship as they’ve made deals on several other properties.

Developersanonymous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 am Target is not going to P&L. Despite what they might think is an unofficial agreement, i have it on good authority that target has not entertained that idea for well over a year now.

Target last toured a location in PNL over a year ago but discussions have remained active.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:46 pm There’s nothing on paper and Cordish doesn’t have any issue if they pick a different location. What I mean is Target wants to be in or as close to PNL as possible for the particular format of store they prefer to put in. If this means just across the interstate, it’s a win for both. If they decide to go for a larger footprint store it obviously won’t be in PNL. Executives from both companies have a close working relationship as they’ve made deals on several other properties.

yeah, I have no idea what your original statement was about then. Seems to just be conjecture.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:46 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:39 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:33 am
Doesn’t DCole actively work directly with cordish though?

It’s not disputed that Cordosh THINKS they have an agreement with Target and that they want to be in P&L. It’s disputed if this is really the case from Targets perspective and that they aren’t looking at other locations and having strong conversations with other properties and developments. Sometimes developers put out a narrative, either directly or through their operatives, that they want to take hold to benefit themselves. So, if people start saying, “But, I heard that Target was going in the P&L District!” that’s a good thing for them. Just might not be the case.

There’s nothing on paper and Cordish doesn’t have any issue if they pick a different location. What I mean is Target wants to be in or as close to PNL as possible for the particular format of store they prefer to put in. If this means just across the interstate, it’s a win for both. If they decide to go for a larger footprint store it obviously won’t be in PNL. Executives from both companies have a close working relationship as they’ve made deals on several other properties.

This seems right. Idk why Target would want to put a small format store somewhere other than in the middle of where there’s a ton of foot traffic and alot of people living in proximity.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:09 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:46 pm There’s nothing on paper and Cordish doesn’t have any issue if they pick a different location. What I mean is Target wants to be in or as close to PNL as possible for the particular format of store they prefer to put in. If this means just across the interstate, it’s a win for both. If they decide to go for a larger footprint store it obviously won’t be in PNL. Executives from both companies have a close working relationship as they’ve made deals on several other properties.

yeah, I have no idea what your original statement was about then. Seems to just be conjecture.

Let me try to put this in easier to understand terms. Target wants to be in or close to PNL. Cordish keeps this in mind with every design decision and if a space can be configured within an area of new construction, Target is in. Price per sqf has even been agreed upon but if a different or better opportunity comes along first, Target isn’t obligated to sign with Cordish. Thus, a unofficial agreement!

It’s not conjecture when it comes from the top of the food chain. Both parties agree a downtown Target is good for downtown. They’re also in more solidified negotiations about 6-10 other locations across the country opening over the next 4 years.

I’m not saying it will work out and there will be a Target in PNL. Could be crossroads or further south. Just passing along first hand knowledge that I wasn’t told to keep confidential.

I’m not attempting to make breaking forum news here. Seems like this has basically been known for years.

So Cordish did or didn't keep Target in mind when designing 3L? Given your comment that said ts' a better coctail bar space it seems no or maybe they asked and when Target said "nah" they redesigned.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:00 am So Cordish did or didn't keep Target in mind when designing 3L? Given your comment that said ts' a better coctail bar space it seems no or maybe they asked and when Target said "nah" they redesigned.

3L slightly too small and they don’t prefer a two story store. Also, PNL doesn’t have a high end cocktail bar at the moment. Big gap in the market and something downtown residents list high on their priority lists.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:48 am Let me try to put this in easier to understand terms.

Target does not want to be in PNL. They have exchanged ft2 pricing and it could be a backup option but is very much not their preference.

^Now that's conjecture unless you provide source.