WoodDraw wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:53 pm
It has a nice grocery store, movie theater, a few fast casual places, and sports bars. A nationally used outdoor space. Nice landscaping and outdoor areas.
The grocery store was a must demand from the city to build the district. The movie theater wasn't developed by Cordish but they demanded it have a bar/ entertainment area in it when releasing it to AMC. The only fast casual place left is Chipotle.
Protein house. They could do better here though. I don’t think people realize how much but not having fast food and more casual food is missing from downtown. We know the reasons (they want drive throughs).
I think for an urban theater, having that stuff is table stakes.
The lack of take-out options is glaring downtown. As I've stated before, one of the reasons for this is the lack of cheap older buildings that had kitchen spaces already in them. Most of those have been demolished over the decades.
These types of restaurants don't necessarily have to be that big or have a lot of seating. They can do a decent business of takeaway and delivery. Town Topic is tiny.
I'll give an example. When they redeveloped the Graphic Arts Lofts, they took out two retail spaces for leasing offices. This was a mistake. They should have had the leasing office somewhere else in the building. Perhaps in one of the apartment spaces instead. They likely could have made more money renting out the retail spaces to small restaurant operators than they could have gotten in rent for the apartment they used for leasing.
And we all know what a mistake I think Cordish is making with the ground floor of the Midland Office Building conversion. Those former retail spaces should have remained affordable retail spaces. The City was dumb not to negotiate that.
This is probably a boiling-hot take, and purely vibes-based, but it seems like downtown could use more chain fast food restaurants and other chain shops just to fill in empty retail slots, or even encourage the construction of new retail slots. I know the argument is that it could push out local businesses, and I totally understand where that comes from, but I think the area can handle them without that happening. Worrying about a chain stealing from local businesses seems like such a small-town concern, along the lines of the big walmart cannibalizing the little Main Street. But I feel like the downtown of a city should be a place where you can buy anything, and that does include the 5-trillionith mcdonalds hamburger
TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:09 pm
This is probably a boiling-hot take, and purely vibes-based, but it seems like downtown could use more chain fast food restaurants and other chain shops just to fill in empty retail slots, or even encourage the construction of new retail slots. I know the argument is that it could push out local businesses, and I totally understand where that comes from, but I think the area can handle them without that happening. Worrying about a chain stealing from local businesses seems like such a small-town concern, along the lines of the big walmart cannibalizing the little Main Street. But I feel like the downtown of a city should be a place where you can buy anything, and that does include the 5-trillionith mcdonalds hamburger
TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:09 pm
This is probably a boiling-hot take, and purely vibes-based, but it seems like downtown could use more chain fast food restaurants and other chain shops just to fill in empty retail slots, or even encourage the construction of new retail slots. I know the argument is that it could push out local businesses, and I totally understand where that comes from, but I think the area can handle them without that happening. Worrying about a chain stealing from local businesses seems like such a small-town concern, along the lines of the big walmart cannibalizing the little Main Street. But I feel like the downtown of a city should be a place where you can buy anything, and that does include the 5-trillionith mcdonalds hamburger
When visitors to downtown are in a rush they want something they recognize fast. If they can’t find it, they’ll just eat outside of downtown. Heard countless going to McDonalds outside of downtown just last night after the draft because they wanted late night food.
Downtowners know those spots but no way for visitors or even most suburbanistes to
TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:09 pm
This is probably a boiling-hot take, and purely vibes-based, but it seems like downtown could use more chain fast food restaurants and other chain shops just to fill in empty retail slots, or even encourage the construction of new retail slots. I know the argument is that it could push out local businesses, and I totally understand where that comes from, but I think the area can handle them without that happening. Worrying about a chain stealing from local businesses seems like such a small-town concern, along the lines of the big walmart cannibalizing the little Main Street. But I feel like the downtown of a city should be a place where you can buy anything, and that does include the 5-trillionith mcdonalds hamburger
When visitors to downtown are in a rush they want something they recognize fast. If they can’t find it, they’ll just eat outside of downtown. Heard countless going to McDonalds outside of downtown just last night after the draft because they wanted late night food.
Downtowners know those spots but no way for visitors or even most suburbanistes to
Yes, because there are no apps you can open and type in "restaurants open now near me" or "Late night food". And if there was there is no way to know other people's opinions about them or how busy they are.
TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:09 pm
This is probably a boiling-hot take, and purely vibes-based, but it seems like downtown could use more chain fast food restaurants and other chain shops just to fill in empty retail slots, or even encourage the construction of new retail slots. I know the argument is that it could push out local businesses, and I totally understand where that comes from, but I think the area can handle them without that happening. Worrying about a chain stealing from local businesses seems like such a small-town concern, along the lines of the big walmart cannibalizing the little Main Street. But I feel like the downtown of a city should be a place where you can buy anything, and that does include the 5-trillionith mcdonalds hamburger
When visitors to downtown are in a rush they want something they recognize fast. If they can’t find it, they’ll just eat outside of downtown. Heard countless going to McDonalds outside of downtown just last night after the draft because they wanted late night food.
Downtowners know those spots but no way for visitors or even most suburbanistes to
Yes, because there are no apps you can open and type in "restaurants open now near me" or "Late night food". And if there was there is no way to know other people's opinions about them or how busy they are.
Literally did this last night with friends from out of town. You had Pizza Shuttle and Town Topic.
Which… great late night eats but a few more downtown would be a good thing
TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:09 pm
This is probably a boiling-hot take, and purely vibes-based, but it seems like downtown could use more chain fast food restaurants and other chain shops just to fill in empty retail slots, or even encourage the construction of new retail slots. I know the argument is that it could push out local businesses, and I totally understand where that comes from, but I think the area can handle them without that happening. Worrying about a chain stealing from local businesses seems like such a small-town concern, along the lines of the big walmart cannibalizing the little Main Street. But I feel like the downtown of a city should be a place where you can buy anything, and that does include the 5-trillionith mcdonalds hamburger
When visitors to downtown are in a rush they want something they recognize fast. If they can’t find it, they’ll just eat outside of downtown. Heard countless going to McDonalds outside of downtown just last night after the draft because they wanted late night food.
Downtowners know those spots but no way for visitors or even most suburbanistes to
Yes, because there are no apps you can open and type in "restaurants open now near me" or "Late night food". And if there was there is no way to know other people's opinions about them or how busy they are.
This is exactly why you can't plan around the lowest denominator... Something that's been occuring more and more often. Absurdity.
When visitors to downtown are in a rush they want something they recognize fast. If they can’t find it, they’ll just eat outside of downtown. Heard countless going to McDonalds outside of downtown just last night after the draft because they wanted late night food.
Downtowners know those spots but no way for visitors or even most suburbanistes to
Yes, because there are no apps you can open and type in "restaurants open now near me" or "Late night food". And if there was there is no way to know other people's opinions about them or how busy they are.
Literally did this last night with friends from out of town. You had Pizza Shuttle and Town Topic.
Which… great late night eats but a few more downtown would be a good thing
Hard to trust google to tell you places like bars serving though. A few others off the top of my head that serve late (not sure when you were looking) - Quaff, Harrys, El Publieto, Corvino, Caddy Shack.
I think chains are an indicator species, they follow the market. The absence of a Taco Bell (or whatever) is an indication that the market can't support a Taco Bell. That could be because the market isn't large enough, or its makeup just isn't that of a market which would support a Taco Bell (or whatever). In downtown, I still feel like there just isn't a large enough market yet to support fast food chains. They require significant volume and outside of events the volume just isn't there.
I feel the downtown area expects a higher quality food experience. If you can afford to live downtown, stay in the hotels downtown, or even come out for an overpriced concert, then you probably want something different. Soon the streetcar will be able to take us farther south to all the midtown fast food restaurants.
More people living DT and the loop in particular. The market for more services including late night eats will become undeniable at some point. The retail stall issue is also a factor but primarily we just need more people. Clearly the market is not at "undeniable" status right now.
FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 2:27 pm
More people living DT and the loop in particular. The market for more services including late night eats will become undeniable at some point. The retail stall issue is also a factor but primarily we just need more people. Clearly the market is not at "undeniable" status right now.
Funny how our CBD has the fast food signature of a town of around 2500 people. Subway and Pizza Hut (minus the Dairy Queen). I was wondering how unique this was and noticed Cincinnati only has a couple of Subway's in their CBD too. No Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, McDonald's, Wendy's (although there is a Wahlburger). St Louis lacks a McDonald's DT too although there is one much closer to DT than KC. Have to wonder if this is a trend for the CBD's of many midwestern cities? I kind of suspect it's because CBD's do not accommodate drive-thru's all that well and the corporations must not believe there is enough foot traffic to keep a franchise going.