Midtown Graffiti problem

[justin8216]

Last night going through westport, and watched a guy spray painting a stone wall across from the post office with a gang symbol. It was only 1:30 AM. I thought about calling 911 on my cell phone and reporting him as he was walking all over Westport spraying gang symbols. However I didn't. I figured it would just be a waste of time, as it would be put at the bottom of the police priority list. I saw tons of police cruisers going up and down Main Street, but not one ever turned down a side street. The graffiti is getting really bad in Midtown/Westport. Why isn't KCMO or the westport property owners doing anything about this?

[f00dl3]

I thought about calling 911 on my cell phone and reporting him as he was walking all over Westport spraying gang symbols. However I didn't. I figured it would just be a waste of time,

[KCMax]

Yea, I don't get why you didn't call the cops. Maybe they would have ignored your call, but it takes what, 30 second to place such a call? This is why graffiti persists, apathy.

[dangerboy]

FYI, 911 is for life or death emergencies, not reporting something like this. 

[KCMax]

411. Can I have the number for the KCMO police department?

[mean]

Last night I was leaving the bar and driving through westport, and watched a guy spray painting a stone wall across from the post office with a gang symbol.

What gang symbol? Dude was probably just tagging. Annoying, but harmless.

[dangerboy]

234-5000.  If you aren't willing to report it, then please stop bitching about it.

[lock+load]

What gang symbol? Dude was probably just tagging. Annoying, but harmless.

If someone has to take the time to clean it up it is not harmless.

[ozone84]

If someone has to take the time to clean it up it is not harmless.

Exactly. 

And in my opinion it is a 911 call.  You're observing a crime in progress.  That calls for a police officer to be dispatched to stop the crime.  From the KCPD FAQ:

Q. When should I call 911?

A. You should call 911 in any emergency situation.  Do not call the station in an emergency situation, call 911 so that the communications unit can dispatch officers promptly to your location.  "If you need an officer to respond...then call 911. If your situation is a non emergency call 234-5000."

It seems harmless until it's your building and you try and remove spray paint from 100 year old brick.  If this little creep hit enough buildings in one night and the prosecutors could prove it, you're talking felony property damage.

[Sportster]

What gang symbol? Dude was probably just tagging. Annoying, but harmless.

Must disagree with you on this one.
"Annoying but harmless"?

Umm, "tagging" is how gangs communicate their intentions and their territory. The message can be anything from someone forecasting a hit on a rival gang member to initiation into a gang. That's why its extremely important to get it down as quickly as possible after it goes up! And if it goes up again, take it down again - as often as it takes.

Gang Symbol" Hmmm, ESL, NES, SUR-13, WS, MK. Some of these have national affiliations such as the Crips or the Bloods. Just the sort of folks I want "tagging" in MY neighborhood. NOT!!!!

Harmless?

Don't think so.

As for this being a midtown issue exclusively, welcome to the RW! You should have made that call to PD. No telling what might have happend if a district car just got "freed up" and chose to take the call.
Course then the prosecution end of things comes into play and we all must remember - we live in Jackson County and our "Prosecutor" is very busy with higher priority things than prosecuting some 14 year old moron with a spray can in his hand. (read "tagger") Can you hear the hue and cry - "he's such a good boy..."

Take a drive down St. John Ave. over in Northeast. We've got it EVERYWHERE!!!. Goes up, gets crossed out, tagged over, crossed out again, tagged over again. Geezus!! Got it last night on my garage. A little paint stripper and it came right off though. Spoke with an East Patrol cop before Christmas and indicated we wanted the Gang Unit out to be more pro-active. His response was - shall we say - less than positive. Time for a "come to Jesus" with the Chief I reckon.

Sportster
...buying graffitti block in bulk  :?

[mean]

Umm, "tagging" is how gangs communicate their intentions and their territory. The message can be anything from someone forecasting a hit on a rival gang member to initiation into a gang. That's why its extremely important to get it down as quickly as possible after it goes up! And if it goes up again, take it down again - as often as it takes.

Tagging is also how juvenile jackasses demonstrate their tagging prowess, and this is a million times more common, as well as annoying and (I'll amend my statement here) mostly harmless. If you think the cops and their dispatchers don't have anything better to do than hunt down some punk graffiti artist who is almost certainly not involved in gang activity, then go right ahead and call 911, but I sure as hell won't.

You guys sound to me like paranoid freaks. Graffiti happens. It is not by any reasonable definition an emergency.

[lock+load]

Tagging is also how juvenile jackasses demonstrate their tagging prowess, and this is a million times more common, as well as annoying and (I'll amend my statement here) mostly harmless. If you think the cops and their dispatchers don't have anything better to do than hunt down some punk graffiti artist who is almost certainly not involved in gang activity, then go right ahead and call 911, but I sure as hell won't.

You guys sound to me like paranoid freaks. Graffiti happens. It is not by any reasonable definition an emergency.

It is not an emergency, but the attitude "graffiti happens" is not the answer.  It is a nuisance to us law-abiding citizens.  Can we not demand reasonable behavior and respect of the law in the city?

[ozone84]

From the following link:  http://www.nograffiti.com/grafnews/10_2 ... affiti.htm

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of any of these figures, but the idea that homebuyers might pass by a neighborhood with lots of graffiti seems plausible.


How Does Graffiti "Hurt"?
Graffiti vandals believe their actions harm no one. The reality is graffiti hurts everyone—homeowners, communities, businesses, schools, and you. And, those who practice it risk personal injury, violence, and arrest.

Retail sales - "Graffiti contributes to lost revenue associated with reduced ridership on transit systems, reduced retail sales and declines in property value. In addition, graffiti generates the perception of blight and heightens fear of gang activity" reports the U.S. Department of Justice.

Property values - According to the National Association of Realtors, properties located in neighborhoods where there is graffiti vandalism lose 15% of their value. The appearance of graffiti is often perceived by residents and passers-by as a sign that a downward spiral has begun, even though this may not be true.
Safety - Patrons of buildings, parks, or public facilities where graffiti vandalism has occurred may feel that if graffiti is tolerated, then other more serious crimes, such as theft and assault, may also go unchallenged. Schools and youth - In schools, 52% of public high schools and 47% of middle schools reported incidents of vandalism during the 1996-1997 school years. Data shows little difference between cities, towns, and rural areas. Additionally, about 36% of students saw hate-related graffiti at school.

Clean up costs - Although the cost of graffiti vandalism in the U.S. has yet to be definitively documented, for many communities, private property owners, and public agencies the cost is rising each year.

"There are huge public costs associated with graffiti: an estimated $12 billion a year is spent cleaning up graffiti in the United States," according to the U.S. Dept of Justice. While costs may not be that high, graffiti cleanup is taking a big chunk out of municipal budgets.

Figures from a variety of cities across the U.S. suggest that graffiti cleanup alone costs taxpayers about $3-5 per person per year. For smaller communities the amount dedicated to graffiti cleanup annually may be $1 per person or less.

A 2002 survey of communities conducted by Public Technology, Inc., found that "Los Angeles County spends about $55 million per year on graffiti removal (population about 10 million)." This is up from $35-39 million in 1998. "Phoenix (1.3 million population) and Minneapolis (382,000 population) each spend about $4 million. Santa Rosa, CA with a population of 175,000 spends about $250,000 for graffiti removal."

With a population of just under one million, the City of San Jose spends $3 million per year fighting graffiti. In 1999 Sacramento County (1.2 million population) spent an estimated $500,000 on graffiti abatement. Pittsburgh, PA spent the same amount in 2001.

In Baltimore, it costs $350,000 annually; Portland, OR spends $2 million a year; Denver nearly $1 million; Albuquerque, MN has budgeted over $850,000 for 2003; and Madison, WI spends $250,000 annually.

[warwickland]

hahah...i agree with mean here...

there isnt a gang presence in midtown that i know of, and im walking or riding my bike all over it all the time.

they are just taggers. fortunately in my neighborhood, the really big stuff gets cleaned up pretty damn fast.

i think the more important question here is if justin was ok to drive.  :)

[lock+load]

they are just taggers. fortunately in my neighborhood, the really big stuff gets cleaned up pretty damn fast.

so tagging is OK?  i assume breaking out windows is OK too?  slashing tires?  where do you draw the line?  is there a line?

[bahua]

Yeah, it's damaged/defaced property, which directly hurts the people that make the neighborhood work. You definitely should have called the police, especially if it bothered you enough to complain about it on a forum.

[LenexatoKCMO]

It is a rather frustrating reality of urban life that there even needs to be a threshold where we begin to legitimately expect effective response from our police.  If you reported a graffiti in progress in Lenexa they would probably dispatch half the damn force out to comb the neighborhood.  Having grown up there I can say that there is something rather reassuring about that.  When you encounter 'busier' police departments where they ask you to report car break ins and other property crime over a hotline rather than to an officer at the scene and you know there is little liklihood anyone will ever even look into it, one gets easily frustrated.  Obviously the city has a lot larger and more complicated area to cover but the whole "we have bigger fish to fry" attitude does little to reassure folks.  If you want people to feel safe, you have to take this 'petty' stuff seriously. 

[warwickland]

so tagging is OK?  i assume breaking out windows is OK too?  slashing tires?  where do you draw the line?  is there a line?

i suppose it's all relative. i value my safety far and above tags, and i think it would be a ridiculous waste of kcpd's resources and time to respond to "taggings." keeping it cleaned up is a different matter.

[KCMax]

If you want people to feel safe, you have to take this 'petty' stuff seriously. 

The urban renewal book I read last year "Comeback Cities" talked about how Boston and New York began cracking down on the "petty" stuff like vandalism, graffiti, jumping subway fare, and noticed a considerably decline in overall crime.

[warwickland]

i keep meaning to pick that up...