ok, so... i do not "get" condos

[riebschlager]

first off, let me say that i couldn't afford to buy a condo even if i wanted to.  being part of a young-professional childless couple living in the urban core, i thought that maybe i'd be in the "condo demographic".  but apparently the property owners feel differently.

someone correct me if i am wrong, but with a condo, you're basically paying 200k+ for what is basically... an apartment.  i'm sure that there are perks and amenities you don't find in an apartment building.  but your living space is still the size of a one or two bedroom apartment...?

i'm not trying to be a smartass, i  would seriously like to know what the appeal is.  how can condos be so popular and fetch such huge prices per square foot?

[Tosspot]

I always figure it's the advantage of homeownership, which accentuates one's investment portfolio and net worth. They're just for poeple who do not want detached single family homes.

[dangerboy]

Probably the biggest thing is you get all the advantages of home ownership (tax deductions, credit history, freedom to remodel, etc) with fewer responsibilities like yard work, exterior painting, shovelling sidewalks, etc.  You also get the investment return of rising property values.

For the $200,000 price range you mention, there's a lot more than just a two bedroom apartment.  Downtown condos start at $80,000 in the Met, although those are more like the apartments you describe.

A lot of the young people buying condos are necessarily there for very long.  Many are expecting to take advantage of the hot downtown real estate market to sell the condo at a big profit in a few years.

[skim82]

I totally understand your confusion...

The Met was OK, but it was in a crappy part of DT with absolutely no urban feel to it...  Plus, it was kind of dark and small.... Reminded me of Twin Oaks on UMKC.

Lofts are very pricey... I could'nt believe some of the prices @ the Atriums at Soho (2nd) better building.  They were asking over $270,000 for a 1,200-1,400 sqft. pad. 

I'm just going to wait until the summer time to snatch one up...  Hopefully by then, all the kids that got into a condo at an "interest only" mortgage, start to feel the squeeze of interest rates and I can take advantage.. (at a higher rate of course)... but, the availablility of units right now just don't impress me too much..

[scooterj]

I actually don't get the condo appeal either... you're saddled with a massive mortage, and then on top of that, you're also paying expensive monthly dues.  I'd far rather rent.    You can get close to the same quality so much cheaper.

[Tosspot]

... you're saddled with a massive mortage, and then on top of that, you're also paying expensive monthly dues.  I'd far rather rent.    You can get close to the same quality so much cheaper.

But you build up equity though. That's the appeal I see in it.

[staubio]

I actually don't get the condo appeal either... you're saddled with a massive mortage, and then on top of that, you're also paying expensive monthly dues.  I'd far rather rent.    You can get close to the same quality so much cheaper.

Not a ton cheaper.  I'm paying 75% more for 36% more space.  I have full design freedom, attentive and consistent building maintanence and growing equity.  If I want to buy in the future, I can take the money I have paid against my current place to move up in the world for the same payment.

Also, very few rentals have the same quality as condos, unless they eventually have aspirations for sale, i.e. 909 Walnut.  You can get some as-is and that allows you to have the low maintanence life of an apartment while still being able to remodel and such.

True, renting is cheap and affords the most disposable income, but I had to start putting some of that towards some growth.  A condo is perfect for me because I enjoy the lifestyle.  You can't get a house that packs the density and thus supports nearby neighborhood amenties like you can with a condo.  In a house, you can't pool your purchasing power to build and maintain top-class commons spaces.  In a house, you don't live in a community buildng and save on utilities.  In a house, you don't have a view of the river and the Broadway Bridge.

[WorldTraveler]

Let's take a for example:

The units I bought (2) have appreciated in book value by approximately $50,000 in the past ten months, not including improvements. Add in the actual value of improvements and you get about $80,000 above the agreed upon original price. A house would not increase in value by that amount in a mere eight months unless there were extraordinary circumstances. Add in the fact that I was able to lock in a relatively low rate as well as avoid making any payments between the time construction started and the date of final closing (which will be in approximately three weeks), and you can see how I have added about $80,000 in wealth to my portfolio as well as having two very nice condo units.

I will make payments on these units and rent one out to offset some of the cost of outlay. I also am speculating that the units will continue to appreciate in value as time goes on, so that in another two years the new value will be approximately double what I borrowed for it. At that point it may be time to simply sell and move on.

Selling a house is much more involved, time consuming, and difficult assuming no exceptional market circumstances. In addition, the increase in property values cannot match that of a condominium in a growing downtown area. The risk is greater as are the rewards. This type of investment is attractive to a younger professional who is more interested in short term payoffs and liquidity as opposed to long term security.

[KCPowercat]

Some of us also don't need the largest amount of space for the price.  Personally the location and lack of mainteance are the two biggest sellers.  If we decide to leave on a 4 day trip tomorrow, we lock the place and leave.  No worries.

[Thrillcekr]

Probably the biggest thing is you get all the advantages of home ownership (tax deductions, credit history, freedom to remodel, etc) with fewer responsibilities like yard work, exterior painting, shovelling sidewalks, etc.  You also get the investment return of rising property values.

For the $200,000 price range you mention, there's a lot more than just a two bedroom apartment.  Downtown condos start at $80,000 in the Met, although those are more like the apartments you describe.

A lot of the young people buying condos are necessarily there for very long.  Many are expecting to take advantage of the hot downtown real estate market to sell the condo at a big profit in a few years.

Just to give you an update DB, the days of condos in the 80's at the Met are long gone and they've been gone since last summer.  I went there last summer and the cheapest they had available started at 94.  It was pretty damn disappointing what you got for that too.  Riverbend had units that were more than 200 square feet larger and a hell of a lot nicer for the same price but some dick named Staubio (joke) grabbed the last one before I could get my hands on it.

[staubio]

Just to give you an update DB, the days of condos in the 80's at the Met are long gone and they've been gone since last summer.  I went there last summer and the cheapest they had available started at 94.  It was pretty damn disappointing what you got for that too.  Riverbend had units that were more than 200 square feet larger and a hell of a lot nicer for the same price but some dick named Staubio (joke) grabbed the last one before I could get my hands on it.

Nah, I grabbed one of the first ones. 

[skim82]

WorldTraveler, where did you buy your condos?

[snarf]

The reason we went condo:
1) We travel for work, the yard and home upkeep was very difficult to maintain
2) Love, love, love walking to Crown Center, Southwest Blvd, Freighthouse, etc. -- We are walking distance from so many restaurants, bars and entertainment - it's hard to decide what we will do in the evenings.
3) Upcoming downtown development - there is going to much more to do and see in a couple of years.
4) No property taxes
5) Quality of our home -- our walls are brick, floor is wood, counters are granite -- we built a house in the Northland 6 years ago and felt that the quality of home building in the past decade has been lacking.  Even if the floors and counters, etc -- were of high quality, the actual house structure was not good.  We were glad to get out of the house when we did, because we really thought is was kind of falling apart.  With this condo, it's a very, very solid building.  This loft will definitely outlast the home we built a few years back.
6)It's funny, I don't think I could go back to suburban life and be satisfied.
7)Your right about the cost, our loft was very expensive, but it's beautiful and very unique.  Also, our sq footage is only about 1850... but I love that it's a smaller space with high quality materials as opposed to a large home with average quality.  I love not having a yard or needing to paint the house, repair the roof, etc.

[dangerboy]

There are some neighborhoods of single-family homes close to Downtown than Valentine.  Westside, Dutch Hill, Union Hill, and Columbus Park are all just outside the loop.

There is also the townhouse option, which is somewhere between house and condo.  Some even have a little bit of yard.

[KCMax]

i'd love to live a bit closer to downtown... (i'm in valentine now) but i love having a yard and a porch.  and i'm either far to cheap or far to poor to plunk down a quarter of a million or more for a condo.

I'm with you. I'm hoping there are more townhouses being built in the next phase of development. Union Hill is nice, but pricey and its hard to find anything available.

[Steve52]

If you're not comfortable living within condo rules and restrictions, and in close proximity to others, then a condo is probably not the place for you.

Condo costs include:

    * down payment, mortgage and property tax.
    * condo fees, otherwise known as maintenance fees. Condo fees are paid by every resident to help with the maintenance of the building, pay the salaries of groundskeepers, concierges or handymen, and provide luxury facilities such as a pool, gym or rooftop garden. Condo fees are paid monthly and are subject to change.
    * special assessment fees. These fees may be requested when an unexpected repair or planned modification exceeds the cost of the condo fees collected.

Rules to live by

Condominiums are governed by a set of rules called Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs). The rules vary from one condo development to another. They may impose restrictions on pet ownership, noise levels, remodeling projects, and renting. The CC&Rs are enforced by the condo association. It's a good idea to read the CC&Rs to make sure that you are comfortable with them before you purchase a condominium.

[DaveKCMO]

they just don't build houses that look like my condo. that's why i bought it: exposed brick and ductwork, concrete floors, 13-foot ceilings, smaller environmental impact, yet new construction. the ownership experience and equity is a bonus. otherwise, i'd be renting a loft.

owning a condo is not for everyone. if you want your own greenspace to cover with chemicals so you can turn around and maintain it with polluting mowers, weeders, and blowers... then by all means keep the house and take the bus for 25 cents on ozone days.

[K.C.Highrise]

um ... apartment?

[hethj7]

For me, there are several advantages.

1) It is a smart investment and I am building equity.  When you rent, you get nothing back for your money, although in the short term in can be cheaper when figuring closing costs, property taxes, etc.

2)  Maintenance free - My job has moved me to TX to work on a project.  I will probably be living here for a total of 6 months.  I simply locked my doors and walked away from my condo.....no worries for me while I am gone.

3) HOA dues - yes, these can be expensive,but in the long run it evens out.  I may pay more monthly than a homeowner, but I don't foot a $3,000 billl when my house needs a new roof, or paint, etc.  My HOA covers my gas bill (provides winter heating), water, trash, building insurance, pool maintenance, building upgrades, landscaping, etc.  I think it very quickly becomes a wash between HOA dues and the cost of maintaining a home.

4)  I can walk to the plaza, westport, the park, etc.  Nothing better than going out on the weekends and then walking back home without worrying about having designated drivers. 

5) The community - Sure, at times I can hear my neighbors in their units (my building was built in 1968 and was never a commercial building), but overall I like being around people.  I like chatting with them in the hallways, in the parking lot, or by the pool.

6) The activity in my neighborhood - One of my favorite things to do is to sit on my balcony and just watch all the people out and about.  The plaza area is relatively active, and it just seems to motivate me to get out and do more things.

I could list many more reasons, but you get the idea.  Sure, I do miss having a yard at times at times and the space offered by a house, but at this point in my life, I couldn't be much happier with my decision to buy a condo.

[artistboy]

Condos are about ownership and higher quality materials and build than an apartment... real condos at least, not the wood frame apartments that are going "condo" every so often in midtown. Maintenance free for the most part too. Design and layout usually beats any thing apartments have to offer and a lot of us have wicked views to boot.
I like houses too... wish I had a yard still, but realize that I'm not mowing the lawn and cleaning the gutters while I live here.
Sure condos are expensive... it's all relative though. Real lofts and condos are not glorified apartments like many of my suburban friends tend to think. That thought usually ends once they come over and visit for the first time and realize how f-ing closed minded and ignorant they are on the subject.
Condos are great for those of us that love investments, hate throwing money away to rent, and might take a flight out of town all of a sudden and not have to worry as much about the "house" while we're gone. While the tenants in an apartment building can go to crap, it's really not as likely that trashy people are going to be footing the bill to live in a condo... let alone abide by the HOA rules.
Condos aren't for everyone, but they're doing a hell of a job helping out DT and bringing in new owners that don't want all the issues of traditional home ownership. I'm all for condos... and houses too!