OFFICIAL - Bartle Hall Expansion construction

[nemesis]

First of all, I have made 2 posts and none of them were direct towards any of you.  I have never conveyed any anger as you implied and simply stated my opinion which I have reasons for besides how it makes me feel.  I also never said anything about a KC inferiority complex.  Why are you so defensive?  Did you work on the project? 

Secondly, I don’t think you have really made any credible point to refute mine other than “you like it" and "it's better than what was there."   
With that logic, am I to infer that you would take the same position regarding the marriot lighting as sophisticated with good graphic and lighting design and then rationalize it because it is better than a bland brick building and is one of the largest LCD displays?  I surely hope not and hope that isn't all you have to bring to the discussion? 
If you have “bigger issues to deal with,” then, in my opinion, you might be a bit short sided in what is one of my objections:  It’s my money and your money paid for this PUBLIC project.  Money that could have been better spent towards the bigger issues that confront our city. 
I think voltopt has clarified almost the exact same criticisms I have.  So, maybe I'm not so off base?
But since you would prefer further clarification, here it is:
1) If you take the time to look at  Zhao’s art work, you will notice that he A)  has never worked on a piece of this scale B) he has never worked with this material.  C) For typical projects the artist are evaluated and must show achievement in  Media, Materials, Content, Style, Scope and Experience.  For this type of commission, Zhao lacks in most of these areas but was selected.  While I prefer to let artists critique art, it is my opinion that most “Artists” are considered successful because they have mastered their medium or worked with it in a different way which makes them unique.  If you consider any of these points alone and look at the end result you might be able to see why I think it should have been much better. 
2) The architect showed very little and understanding or respect to the historical nature of the building and its roots in modernism and long span structures.  Since the form is a result of the structural geometry and how the loads are transferred and the building supported, they should have worked closer with the artist to create a complementary design in lieu of an whimsical appendage.  Since they as well had no experience in public art projects we see the end result.  In contrast, the southern addition, while not including an artist, was fairly successful of integrating the new and the old in a holistic manner without simply replicating or deviating from the original. 
3) It is a public art project.  It uses our tax dollars to create structures that are going to be in the public domain for a long time.  One important criteria is that the Public Art’s primary intention is to enhance the public domain.  To do this, it can’t be whimsical and immediately dated. 
4) Zahner Metals is an amazing company and works all around the world with the best artists and architects and we are fortunate to have them in Kansas City.  Working with them opens up every possibility you could imagine and this is what we get?  Look at their web site. Zahner is always consistent in being innovative with a high caliber of work.  However, it is the artist and architects who dictate the design and in comparison to what they have done on other projects, the design team has clearly underachieved.
5) Just because it is a loading dock doesn’t diminish its impact to the image of the City and the expectation for future art commissions.  If you know anything about the Downtown Plan, 12th street beautification is a high priority as our tallest structures are adjacent to this street as well as our City Government.  So to dismiss this as simply a loading dock and it’s lack of importance might indicate that maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to pass judgment.  But that is just my opinion of course.   
Thanks for “calling me out” on the issue. 

[grovester]

I think the point you make is lost in the manner you presented it.  Criticizing the choice of artist in relation to the medium and palette is valid, but your tone implies something more personal, or worse needlessly snarky.

[cdm2p]

I think nemesis works for HNTB.

[im2kull]

I think nemesis works for HNTB.

Nah...have you seen their HQ?  Its hideous when it comes to urban integration.

[cdm2p]

Nah...have you seen their HQ?  Its hideous when it comes to urban integration.

Exactly.  Now one of them is here attacking the dock because it doesn't fit with the rest of a building that looks like a warehouse.  Let's face it, Bartle Hall is poorly designed and does not belong in an urban environment.  Should the artist have compounded a mistake by creating something that pays omage to a poorly designed building?

IMO, the dock and the art soften what is otherwise the worst building in downtown KCMO.

[moderne]

Just look across the street to see REAL architecture and a sensitive utilitarian addition to an older building.

[aknowledgeableperson]

heard of ramps?

And that is what you had at the south end, circular ramps.  At the same time ramps take of space and get you from a lower elevation to a higher and then the reverse.  At the north end the dock is just about level with the street so ramps are not needed.  Ramps of Central or Broadway would have narrowed the halls and make the exhibit area far smaller than needed.  Best compromise given everything to be considered was to put the docks on the ends of the hall, which meant one on the north end along 12th St. 

[ComandanteCero]

Unless you were in the room designing the thing and considering the space management issues I don't see how you can definitively state the design was the "best compromise".

I'm guessing the reason for not undertaking underground ramps has less to do with space concerns and more to do with cost.  The convention was the end product of a design process that simply didn't take the surrounding urban environment into much account (certainly didn't make it a priority), and it reflects that.  I think if it were being designed today, urban design concerns would have played a much larger role and we would have a completely different building.     

[aknowledgeableperson]

I'm guessing the reason for not undertaking underground ramps has less to do with space concerns and more to do with cost.  The convention was the end product of a design process      

And that is part of the compromise.  It's funny.  The amount of money available, and space (don't forget, the amount of money can limit the space available), does provide a limit on what you can do.

[KCFutbol]

And that is part of the compromise.  It's funny.  The amount of money available, and space (don't forget, the amount of money can limit the space available), does provide a limit on what you can do.

Very true. Almost every project is constrained by the budget. The only only exceptions are projects such as the Stowers Institute.

[ComandanteCero]

And that is part of the compromise.  It's funny.  The amount of money available, and space (don't forget, the amount of money can limit the space available), does provide a limit on what you can do.

yes... money is certainly a constraint:

I'm guessing the reason for not undertaking underground ramps has less to do with space concerns and more to do with cost.

You asked where else the loading docks could have gone, and you got an answer.  The original designers back in 1960's were operating under a different set of assumptions and ideas, so i don't blame them for not implementing it (if they even considered it).  But I think it's reasonable to think that under a different set of priorities and assumptions designers might arrive at different solutions, and that underground loading docks might be one of them (Pumpkin saw the same solution right away).  Considering our convention center is now partially built over a highway, I didn't think the idea would quite blow your mind the way it has... 

[trailerkid]

Here's a better pic from 12th and Main:

[cdm2p]

Here's a better pic from 12th and Main:

12th and Main?  I think you mean 12th and Central.

[trailerkid]

12th and Main?  I think you mean 12th and Central.

it's a blog.

[cdm2p]

it's a blog.

precisely.  people believe everything they read on the internet so corrections must be made when appropriate.

[KansasCityCraka]

precisely.  people believe everything they read on the internet so corrections must be made when appropriate.

LOL

[trailerkid]

precisely.  people believe everything they read on the internet so corrections must be made when appropriate.

No...12th and Main is the name of the blog site that the picture came from. We are using a forum not a blog currently.

click here:
http://12thandmain.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... -town.html

[im2kull]

precisely.  people believe everything they read on the internet so corrections must be made when appropriate.

[cdm2p]

No...12th and Main is the name of the blog site that the picture came from. We are using a forum not a blog currently.

click here:
http://12thandmain.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... -town.html

DOH!!!

[KCMax]

Bartle Hall gets paint job in KC program of sprucing up convention-related facilities

When it comes to Bartle Hall, it?s calculated in buckets of paint ? 600 gallons worth. Enough to cover more than 50,000 square feet, the distinctive zigzag exterior of the older section of the building extending between 12th and 14th streets.