KCRag Forum

    It seems that most units are quite small.  I had a difficult time sizing down to fit into 1700 sq. ft and I am finding out my unit is at the larger end of the scale downtown.  What are the bldgs with larger units and are there any on the drawing boards.  I will never be able to convince some people to give dt a look if only japanese size flats are available.

They can be found, but the associated price tag usually is enough to send people running to the suburbs.  A decent 2000 sq ft place is going cost in the neighborhood of $450-500K.  A 2028 sq ft unit at Conover Place is currently listed at $599K and a 4500 sq ft double unit at $1.25M.

The problem is that people want space and affordability.  Those two things just don't go together in these new condos.  In order to get into most people's price comfort zone, the developers have to offer smaller units.

Conover Place has almost 1/3 of the units > 2000 sq. ft.  I don't know of that many other places with a high percentage of larger spaces.  Wallstreet probably has some, the penthouses at 1819 Baltimore, maybe the Monroe Hotel.

To find anything even vaguely reasonable, people who want to live in an urban environment, but not downsize, could explore options in the west bottoms.  A buddy of mine is renting a unfinished 3,000 sq. ft. unit at the bottom of 12th street (just north of it).  I don't know what he pays, but I know the guy doesn't make a lot of money.  To buy something like that, I would guess at least $100-$150 a sq. ft.

For more size, maybe an urban house is more reasonable - union hill or westside/Summit area?  As it stands now, I think downsizing/simplification is part of moving downtown.

Yeah, I know some people who have 4,000 sqft in the bottoms and pay around $650. Granted, it's just a giant warehouse basically. Had to build their own kitchen and etc, I believe.

well, i think you're going to have to sacrifice sq. footage if you go for dense urban locations (unless you want to pay an arm and a leg).  The tradeoff (theoretically i suppose) is the density of activity, people, culture etc. you find out your door.  Don't need lots of indoor space if you're frequently out and about.  Granted, KC still needs to go a ways to make this tradeoff apparent in the dt area.  You have to be something of an urban pioneer to really want to live down there (by which i mean, you realize things aren't quite there yet, but are willing to wait a couple of years for everything to be up and running).

People who expect a mini-chicago/manhattan from dt in 2005 will be sorely disappointed.  Wait till 2008, and i think the area will have made solid strides towards that (the disadvantage of waiting till then to buy, is that you'll be paying higher prices......)

you can get 1500sqft plus if you are willing to go with a mid level product starting at $250,000. the other option is to find a place with high enough ceilings to deck a second level.

tough to find, but possible.

there is a resale condo downtown that is $190,000 for about 1600 sqft. not bad if you are willing to do the work to fix it up. also one on the west side 2 bed, 2 bath, 2 level for a little over $200,000. (now that is a deal!)

Just a question-no flames please. Why on earth are the prices so high?

Are regular houses in the city that expensive per square foot?

they are that high because people will pay it.

just the simple fact that there is less space downtown and it is supposed that there are less homes. also, the cost to turn warehouses, factories, etc that are 100+ years old into residential space that is asbestos and mold free, add some sound proofing and water tight windows while keeping the original structure or at least the shell in tact and you are talking about some major expense.

Are these places energy efficient?

depends on who does the work and what they use. most places will provide an energy efficiency rating. a dependable number is really only available if you purchase a unit that has been rental long enough to get a 12 month history from the utility companies.

well, i think you're going to have to sacrifice sq. footage if you go for dense urban locations (unless you want to pay an arm and a leg).  The tradeoff (theoretically i suppose) is the density of activity, people, culture etc. you find out your door.  Don't need lots of indoor space if you're frequently out and about.

Not theoretically.  I enjoy it daily.  I don't need a large place because I'm not in it much...I am out and about with things right at my door.


I believe Wallstreet has some 1500sf. places left.

shelroni wrote: depends on who does the work and what they use. most places will provide an energy efficiency rating. a dependable number is really only available if you purchase a unit that has been rental long enough to get a 12 month history from the utility companies.

Are you not told what energy using equipment is used in your unit? Is there a building code that must be met?

The history from the utility company is not really adequate. Too many variables from tenant to tenant.

nota wrote: Are you not told what energy using equipment is used in your unit? Is there a building code that must be met?

The history from the utility company is not really adequate. Too many variables from tenant to tenant.

finding out about the equipment depends on the person selling to you knows. and since most people don't hire an agent to work for them or consult an attorney they only talk to the sellers agent.

what good does it do the sellers agent to tell you if a unit is not energy effecient? second, when they do quote the rates it is typically for a unit that is empty and with nothing but lights and hvac running, so the number is skewed anyway.

building code is variable and energy efficiency is a different subject from that anyway. building code says it must be sound. energy efficiancy says how much does it cost to use it/live in it.

We'll never acheive any sort of density if everyone insists upon having 2000 square feet downtown.  Why would anyone need that much space?  I realize that some people in the suburbs can have a nice guest bedroom, den, etc, but methinks needing 2000 square feet is having too much stuff.  Like others have said, the fact that you have a living, breathing neighborhood outside your door makes the city your "third place" or your "extended livingroom" and you don't need to have all that crap at home.

Great cities have a lot of people sharing a building and spending most of their time outside of it.  A building full of huge condos in the city is almost regrettable, as it takes valuable space and does little to help density.  For better or for worse, we have plenty of space to spare for now -- but hopefully that will change.

If KC truly realizes its potential, this conversation will be looked at as completely ludicrous.  Only the exceptionally wealthy will be demanding that much space downtown.  Downtown will be a place people want to go and they will sacrafice some space to do it -- and that is the way it should be, in my opinion.

part of the great thing of living downtown is not having room for guests.  Stay at a hotel you bums

KCPowercat wrote: part of the great thing of living downtown is not having room for guests.  Stay at a hotel you bums

Exactly.  When I have family or friends visit, I put them up in a hotel.  They can then experience something special and still be within walking distance of my place.  I also can set something up for them in the living room if they'd prefer to go that route.  They understand the lifestyle, so I don't need a bunch of wasted space for when guests come.

When my girlfriend and I were looking for a loft we were initially dead set that we wanted a two bedroom because we wanted "more space".  We wound up getting a supersized one bedroom and I am very glad.  We have a huge common area which allows us to entertain on a larger scale.  All of the two bedroom lofts that we looked at had very small space for living/entertaining.  If we would have gone that route - sure we would have had a guest bedroom and "more space" but it would have been far less practical space from a day to day perspective. 

I have collected cherished friends from around the world. Them , and my family, I want as close to me as possible in the fleeting moments of their visits.  I wouldn't dream of putting them up in a hotel bed, however nice, where thousands of people of unknown hygiene have performed all sorts of acts involving body fluids.  That said, for mere acquaintances and unfavored relatives, theres the comfort inn next door.  Gotta have that spare bedroom and another room for an office.  Did increase entertaining space by putting a futon in the guest room instead of bed.
    The square footage one prefers is probably relative to what we are coming from and where we are in life.  I have passed the dreaded 40 and have collected a lot of stuff over the years.  I downsized from 2500 near the Plaza, having previously gone down from 3200 in Hyde Park.

moderne wrote: I have collected cherished friends from around the world. Them , and my family, I want as close to me as possible in the fleeting moments of their visits.  I wouldn't dream of putting them up in a hotel bed, however nice, where thousands of people of unknown hygiene have performed all sorts of acts involving body fluids.  That said, for mere acquaintances and unfavored relatives, theres the comfort inn next door.  Gotta have that spare bedroom and another room for an office.  Did increase entertaining space by putting a futon in the guest room instead of bed.
    The square footage one prefers is probably relative to what we are coming from and where we are in life.  I have passed the dreaded 40 and have collected a lot of stuff over the years.  I downsized from 2500 near the Plaza, having previously gone down from 3200 in Hyde Park.

I'm surprised you aren't scared of downtown if you are that scared about hotels.

To me, a room that sits mostly empty and unused in a house is a waste.  When that room is in a condo in a dense urban area, it is even worse.  I understand that downsizing was probably difficult for you, but I certainly hope we don't get a huge supply of anything bigger on the market.  That isn't what living in the city is all about.

The prices are high because the land value is very high downtown. Much higher than in the suburbs. Orders of magnitude higher. That's why the buildings develop skyward in downtown areas. Occupying lots of highly-valued land is very very expensive.