Cordish: "Keep the buses out"

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:48 am

There is an article in tomorrow's KC Biz journal talking about Cordish wanting no buses running inside the 7 block district. In specific the article talks about how the new Main and Walnut would have 3 lanes, with one lane reserved for buses during peak hours (south on main in pm, north on walnut in am)

The article doesn't specifically state it but I believe Cordish doesn't want any buses running down any street in the development.

They are also talking about moving one of the Max stops from the NE corner of 13th & Main to the NW corner of 13th & Main. This doesn't seem like a huge deal.

The reason stated for no buses is the future tenants are asking for it. comments on this? I actually don't see it as a huge deal. Keep buses off of Main from 13th to Truman Rd. and off of Walnut between 13th & Truman. Not a huge deal

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:54 am

Here is a link to the ATA which shows which buses are now rerouted....this may remain permanent or a whole mess of changes made soon.

http://www.kcata.org/_kcatadata/What%27 ... eroute.htm

One comment made by the ATA is how they needed to get their buses to the 10th & Main transit center.

My guess is they will allow buses on Main but there won't be bus only lanes in the district and probably not even bus stops within those 2 blocks.

yo mama · Post by **yo mama** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:05 am

I don't know why tenants would care if there are buses in the development. Maybe because it disrupts the pedestrian environment or something. Well it is a fine sacrafice as long as it brings good tenants.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:12 am

sorry, should have stated that in my first post.

Cordish is stating that they need these lanes for on street parking, hence no room for bus specific lanes during certain times of the day.

The article doesn't specifically say they don't want buses anywhere in the development, it's written pretty vaguly....reading it again it only talks specifically about Main and Walnut and using the 'bus only' lanes for on street parking...something the tenants are requesting.

Sorry, not explaining it very well.

Whatever happens sounds like it needs to happen pretty quickly.....the city wanted curb lines set by the end of the year to not delay any projects. Sounds like a small delay in curb lines won't hurt the overall progress.

Sounds like a simple problem that will be worked out if everybody just sits down and does it.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:16 am

At first I thought, WTF? But the streets will be narrow with on-street parking. They can run the perimeter of the district. Most run on Grand anyway.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:17 am

yeah that was my thoughts as well. No biggie but just one of the small details that needs worked out.

BVC · Post by **BVC** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:17 am

Given the buses spew out toxic clouds of black smoke, I say keep them out as well. In fact, there is no problem at all with the buses running the perimeter of the Power and Light District anyway. Buses should be kept to the major 4-6 lane thoroughfares just due to their size. I live right at 48th and Jefferson and routinely watch buses struggle to make the turn down the two-lane 48th Street with parking on both sides. Good idea by Cordish...

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:05 pm

1. it obviously destroys the pedestrian environment they're trying to build

2. they're very loud & obnoxious.

3. they tend to be carrying the poorest of the city. Not what Cordish wants around the development.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:13 pm

I don't see how it kills the pedestrian environment?

KansasCityCraka · Post by **KansasCityCraka** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:10 pm

How would it hurt the enviroment for pedestrians?!?

yo mama · Post by **yo mama** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:15 pm

How would it hurt the enviroment for pedestrians?!?

It's just that no one wants to be shopping while there are big huge machines driving around and causing a nousance. It is just like letting buses drive IN the Plaza. I'm glad they arent letting buses in.

macnw · Post by **macnw** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:18 pm

Would it be different if we were talking about light rail instead of busses?
Conflicts with light rail vehicles far supercede that of busses. Aren't busses just part of the downtown environment? That statement about the bus being for poor people is way off base. That's exactly the type of message we don't want to give. The bus is and should be used by everyone. It is not an issue with money. The issue becomes do you care about the environment, lifestyle, waste of tax money. Everyone should be able to go to KC Live. That's what makes it urban!!!! Do we want another Plaza downtown? People speak of the Plaza as being a fabricated environment, downtown is about as real as it gets(homeless/poor/destitute).

Post by **staubio** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:04 pm

I ride the bus and I exceed the median income in KC. I'll probably be using the bus or my bike almost exclusively to go to P&L.

They let busses in the Plaza. The 39 and 51 run through and a few other routes touch it. I like traffic in the Plaza because it feels big city. It moves incredibly slow and is mixed with pedestrians and busses. I go there to play bicycle messenger.

rxlexi · Post by **rxlexi** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:10 pm

I go there to play bicycle messenger.

It's great fun, isn't it?

I agree that keeping busses out isn't a huge deal as long as there is a stop right on the outskirts of the district, but I would prefer to see them allowed thru P&L, if only to further encourage their use, bring attention to them, and give P&L the feel of a living, breathing city center.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:50 pm

I assume they are just talking about the BRT buses due to them needing dedicated lanes at times? It does not make a lot of sense to keep all buses out that area if they just creeping along in general traffic. Like mentioned before, buses contribute to the urbanity of an area and they are no worse than suburban SUVs clogging up driving lanes as they tend to park and stand where ever they want (see Plaza Cinemark).

Critical_Mass · Post by **Critical_Mass** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:54 pm

It's just that no one wants to be shopping while there are big huge machines driving around and causing a nousance.

Yeah, I hate SUVs too. They shouldn't be allowed in P&L or the plaza...

It is just like letting buses drive IN the Plaza.

Last time I checked, they did allow buses in the plaza. I know there is a stop at 47th & Broadway (?), roughly right in front of Steve's Shoes & Abercrombie.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:15 pm

grid....there issue seems to be dedicated bus lanes down main and walnut even if they are only at certain times. They want that lane for on street parking.

Although they may also want buses not running on 14th main or walnut in the district...all other roads are the edges of the district.

carfreekc · Post by **carfreekc** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:28 am

yo mama wrote:
How would it hurt the enviroment for pedestrians?!?
It's just that no one wants to be shopping while there are big huge machines driving around and causing a nousance. It is just like letting buses drive IN the Plaza. I'm glad they arent letting buses in.

Yeah, NO ONE shops or eats along the 16th Street Mall in downtown Denver, where buses run all day one right after the other, or along Nicollet Mall in downtown Minneapolis. Fifth Avenue in New York? The buses scared off shoppers long ago. No one shops there. Or the Plaza here, for that matter.

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:40 pm

The businesses on Michigan Avenue didn't want new bus shelters built in front of them (they are very classy and are made with mostly glass). They protested until the city threatened to release the names of those businesses. This is a racist policy and shouldn't be an tolerated.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:40 pm

Ingersoll1978 wrote:The businesses on Michigan Avenue didn't want new bus shelters built in front of them (they are very classy and are made with mostly glass). They protested until the city threatened to release the names of those businesses. This is a racist policy and shouldn't be an tolerated.

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