Cost of new NFL stadiums

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:16 pm

you idiot, my point isn't skyline, my point is that KCK is crap, and it always will be, and it doesn't deserve NFL as much as KCMO does...

The Chiefs are too good for KCK and the state of Kansas.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:53 pm

devin...respect. Learn it or be gone.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:51 pm

KCPowercat wrote:devin...respect. Learn it or be gone.

Devin banned?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:00 pm

now everybody knows my position on banning people.....it's next to impossible but this calling people "idiots" and stuff for no reason is not productive.

I can start mass axing of posts or people can listen to others opinions and not use name calling to get their point across.

this is obviously not talking about any one user.

Post by **mean** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:18 pm

I say:

Royals downtown. This is a no-brainer, just about everybody wants to see it happen, and JaCo could probably do it alone with adequate money from Glass, although downtown's proximity to Clay and Wyandotte might maybe garner support+cash from those counties if we can work out a deal. At the very least I'd hope we could make it a KCMO thing (rather than by county) and get Clay onboard, though Northland has plenty of anti-urban advocates.

Chiefs at TSC. Again, no-brainer. Mow down the K (hate to see it go, but...) and use the space for either tailgating+parking or some kind of hotel/restaurant/sports bar/entertainment. Tear down/rebuild or completely refurb and update Arrowhead. This is way out in the middle of JaCo, almost in Independence/Raytown, and I don't think anybody else should have to foot the bill. Lamar Hunt and Jackson County must take responsibility. It might be worth considering pleading with Omahaians and other nearby areas with dense Chiefs fan populations for money, but really, that's pretty scummy.

Wizards at western or southern WyCo or northern JoCo--doesn't matter too much to me, let the KS people decide where they want it, although DMW's location would be boner for the Wizards, imo. Either way, the Wizards rule, and I'd hate to see them leave MO, but I think it's a good compromise because they don't have major roots in KCMO like Chiefs+Royals, who have been in MO since before most any of us were born. MOians won't feel betrayed, and KSians will get a badass pro soccer team to root for + the associated revenue. Personally, I hugely prefer WyCo...getting a good volume of out-of-county (JoCo, ClayCo, JaCo) soccer families to drop their bling in WyCo some 40 times per year could be a major win for Wyandotte. Either way, Wizards go to KS, which also seems like a no-brainer. The real problem with this scenario is, "who pays for the SSS?" but I think that if WyCo were willing to scratch JaCo's back getting the Royals DT, JaCo would happily scratch WyCo's back in putting an SSS somewhere. Pure speculation, but it's a possibility. Other than that, it'd probably have to be on WyCo, which might make it infeasible, but it's still worth a thought. There may even be federal funds floating around somewhere if you pick the right spot.

And Devin, my man, you gotta lose the hate. You're young and smart, and that combination often leads to being an asshole even when you don't mean to (trust me, I know all about it...) But what you're failing to understand is that there is a synergy here. KCK isn't our enemy, she's our teammate in this ongoing game called "making Kansas City rock the nation" (at least, that's what I call it). KCMO might be the quarterback, that's fine, but KCK is our best wide receiver, see? We have to toss them the ball and let them run with it, otherwise our whole team loses.

Ok, football analogies are lame. But you get the idea. I hope.

aknowledgeableperson · Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:51 pm

KCDevin wrote:you idiot, my point isn't skyline, my point is that KCK is crap, and it always will be, and it doesn't deserve NFL as much as KCMO does...

The Chiefs are too good for KCK and the state of Kansas.

So even if KCK or JoCo can cough up the funds, plans, etc. and get the job done and KCMo or JaCo can't they don't deserve the teams? Sorry, but money and action talks. KCMo and JaCo don't get the teams by default. Work has to be done to keep them. Whether they go from JaCo to KS or any other area will be determine by cash and action not because of some skyline. KCMo found that out many years ago when they were hoping (and not acting) for development would come around KCI instead of College Blvd.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:22 am

Critical Mass and bringing tens of thousands of people downtown should be our priority.

Put the Royals at the E. Loop or Washington Square Park in southern downtown. Put the Wizards E of the loop near the highway bringing additional 15k-20k people downtown. And leave the Chiefs at the TSC with a new stadium.

For the Chiefs, they should tear down Arrowhead, replace it with a 81,000+ seat stadium on Kauffman's former site and put a domed structure on the former site of Arrowhead for Post-Season training and practice...

On the issue of putting a pro team on or near the State Line in Kansas... Would this really benefit Kansas City? The only way it could benefit us is by having WyCo voting for BiState things that don't benefit them, and even then they could brag over MO... Another issue on this would be desirability... Look at the Kemper disaster, do we really want people seeing the West Bottom and DT KCK (we know the situation there, not bashing it), I don't think it'd help our image very much. Sure they could see DT closer but they would have to drive through the West Bottoms or DT KCK to get to the stadium wherever they'd put it.
_________________________________________________________

The best location would be near Kemper's location and level the blighted areas of the West Bottoms for tailgating space...
The location near Kemper (yes in KCMO since most of the W. Bottoms is in KCMO) would be close to both DT KCMO and DT KCK and people in the suburbs of both sides would have equal drives to the stadium...

I'd hate to have to demolish so much but the W. Bottoms is pretty much helpless IMO and it'd bring 80,000+ people DT every game.
It would be close enough to KS to make WyCo residents happy (along with some JoCo residents)

It'd also be very symbolic, thousands of people cooking BBQ on KC's former stockyards. Remember, that area used to be just stocks etc... So it wouldn't look much different except the fact the land would be 6-7ft smaller than the stocks were...

In fact, the perfect location would be just south of the highway and north of Kemper, not many buildings there (they'd preserve the Livestock Exchange Building) and it's next to the main highway between KCK and KCMO...

I just got another idea... Put the stadium partially in KCMO and partially in KCK... There is a building there that crosses the state lines in fact...
It'd be close enough to all the rail sites that they could include some light rail...

The combination of American Royal BBQ and Chiefs Tailgating would rock!!!

And the area can easily support the needed amount of parking...

Map outlining my idea:

This would dramatically improve the desirability of the West Bottoms and could help the West Bottoms go under a large residential and commercial boom.

And not only would KCMO and JaCo would donate to help make this a possibility, but KCK and WyCo would also donate to help make this a possibility.

This would make KC more a bistate town than locating a stadium in KS would... And it'd keep both states happy...

Also, I betcha that when KU and MU games were played, they'd play them here

MU would have their benches on the MO side, KU on the KS side... MU Fans on the MO side and KU fans on the KS side

And they could locate the Chiefs training/practice dome in JoCo to help keep them happy too.. (and make this more of a bistate community)
Also considering most Chiefs live in JoCo and Vermeil lives near the Plaza... They wouldn't have to go very far for training...

This project however, should be done in phases with the stadium/demolition/parking lots being done first and everything else done later...

Have BiState IV saying something like...

Do you support raising _____ taxes to help build a BiState Chiefs Stadium in Wyandotte County and Jackson county, a Chiefs training camp in Johnson County (Kansas), a Royals stadium in Crown Center, and a Wizards Stadium in Clay County?

You will definitely have all four counties with that BiState tax...

Build the training camp during the season... Then build Arrowhead II during the off-season (while the Chiefs train in JoCo)... At the same time, build Kauffman II while the Royals play their last year at Kauffman...

Besides making this stadium over 80,000 seats, they should add a retractable roof... Then we could become a real contentor for a future Super Bowl... Plenty of parking, plenty of transportation, plenty of entertainment, a good facility, etc...

I'd absolutely love seeing the Super Bowl come to KC... Thousands upon thousands of people converging on this city, and millions of people watching this city for 1 week

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:36 pm

devin, you are giving me a headache.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:53 pm

lol why? just because I typed so much?

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:13 pm

KCDevin wrote:lol why? just because I typed so much?

Because your locations are wrong. Why in the world would you abandon, arguably the best NFL stadium situation in the country? Why? To make Kansans happy? (and your I hate Kansas flip flop we are one big happy family thing is weird). For an NFL stadium, arrowheadâ€™s access is incredible, the parking is there, the infrastructure is there and it really is fairly central to the entire metro area, from Leeâ€™s Summit and Blue Springs to OP and KCK. Iâ€™m sorry itâ€™s not in Kansas, if the TSC were originally built at 67th & I-35, I would say the same thing. Once we move the baseball stadium downtown, the TSC will get even better for the Chiefs, pushing the stadium closer to I-70 and opening up even more parking for the Chiefs. I see no reason what so ever to move to chiefs, it would be a total waste of money. It would take four hours to and from the stadium in the West Bottoms, there is no way that area could handle a football stadium, plus you would be putting 500 acres of surface lots in an urban area and you would have to tear down many new office and manufacturing structures like Butler, Gateway and others.

The baseball stadium belongs Downtown, period. Not within view of Downtown, not at I-35 and Cambridge, not on the river front, not north of the river, but somewhere in the Downtown/Crown Center area.

Why would you put the stadium at Kaw Point? The view of KCMO sucks from there anyway, you have nothing there but a grain elevator and a bunch of elevated highways. Access would suck worse than the west bottoms and it wouldnâ€™t create the critical mass of attractions that we need to create in order to have a vibrant city with transit etc. Once again, the stadium is better off where itâ€™s at, where it can share parking with arrowhead, itâ€™s easy to get to and from etc. than putting it somewhere other than downtown.

This is why Jackson County and hopefully Clay and Platte need to step up and do what is right for the city, the entire metropolitan area and forget Kansas. Just like StL city and County said screw StCharles and Metro East IL.

We new to build a new downtown ballpark and build a new retractable roof NFL stadium where Kauffman is and then we would actually get back a final four and maybe even the super bowl someday. We would get all star games downtown, we would show the world that KC is an large urban metro area with a big downtown and modern facilities.

I just donâ€™t get this. Letâ€™s do this right or not at all.

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:14 pm

KCDevin wrote:The location near Kemper (yes in KCMO since most of the W. Bottoms is in KCMO) would be close to both DT KCMO and DT KCK and people in the suburbs of both sides would have equal drives to the stadium...

I just got another idea... Put the stadium partially in KCMO and partially in KCK... There is a building there that crosses the state lines in fact...

This would make KC more a bistate town than locating a stadium in KS would... And it'd keep both states happy...

Also, I betcha that when KU and MU games were played, they'd play them here
MU would have their benches on the MO side, KU on the KS side... MU Fans on the MO side and KU fans on the KS side

Have BiState IV saying something like...

Do you support raising _____ taxes to help build a BiState Chiefs Stadium in Wyandotte County and Jackson county, a Chiefs training camp in Johnson County (Kansas), a Royals stadium in Crown Center, and a Wizards Stadium in Clay County?

You will definitely have all four counties with that BiState tax...

I'd absolutely love seeing the Super Bowl come to KC... Thousands upon thousands of people converging on this city, and millions of people watching this city for 1 week

...wiping up my drool off the floor... this is crazy awesome... make the KS side seats red and the MO side seats yellow, then they are school colors and Chiefs colors... let's do this! WOW!

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:19 pm

Why would you put the stadium at Kaw Point? The view of KCMO sucks from there anyway, you have nothing there but a grain elevator and a bunch of elevated highways. Access would suck worse than the west bottoms and it wouldnâ€™t create the critical mass of attractions that we need to create in order to have a vibrant city with transit etc. Once again, the stadium is better off where itâ€™s at, where it can share parking with arrowhead, itâ€™s easy to get to and from etc. than putting it somewhere other than downtown.

That was DMW not me

Thx eliphar

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:21 pm

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:25 pm

Devin, plus, LRT will NEVER go to the west bottoms, the only way that has any chance of happening is if LRT went to KCK via a new WB bridge that has a stop on Genesee or something. But, no way an actual loop through that area and a straight LRT bridge connecting KCK and KCMO would be extremely expensive.

Once again, LRT along I-70 makes more sense, because of 90% of the time the LRT would serve commuters etc.

It's a great idea for a kid with little engineering experience though.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:42 pm

My point is though, it'd be very very easy to place another rail line in that area... you already have what 15 rail tracks there? 1 more small one for light rail wouldn't cost much, especially since there is enough room for it... It'd only go for about 3 miles from River Market south and connect with the LR that'd run from JoCo to Union Station...

LR isn't generations off, at best it is 2 decades off...

troostwood · Post by **troostwood** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:12 pm

Troostwood wrote:

Are there any locations that could straddle the two states?

That would be the perfect solution, with built-in character on top of that. You could get a few legal geeks to work out the rules, etc. If they made it a full donut, tourists could walk around the circle saying, Look I'm in Kansas, Look I'm in Missouri. Kansas laws on one side of the 50, Missouri rules on the other. Sportswriters would eat it up.

then KCDevin wrote:

no, sorry but that'd be just dumb...

again, KS doesn't deserve a pro team...

then KCDevin wrote:

I just got another idea... Put the stadium partially in KCMO and partially in KCK... There is a building there that crosses the state lines in fact...
It'd be close enough to all the rail sites that they could include some light rail...

The combination of American Royal BBQ and Chiefs Tailgating would rock!!!

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:52 am

However, I figured you meant put one stadium in one state, and the other stadium in the other state...

So I figured I improved on that idea...

aknowledgeableperson · Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:58 pm

Devin, are you wiping out Kemper and the new garage in your plans? Don't see them in the picture. American Royal does need to use Kemper for their event.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:00 pm

They don't need Kemper if they can do events in a much much larger facility...

Kemper is an eyesore... An engineering and aesthetical disaster from the start.

aknowledgeableperson · Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:18 pm

The American Royal needs Kemper, they cannot use the new downtown area. The other buildings in the complex are used for stalls for horses and livestock among other things in conjunction with the show. Without Kemper there is no American Royal.
And the garage by the Livestock Exchange Building and Bulter is less than five years old and can handle almost 1,000 cars.

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