KCRag Forum

British Airways filed for IND service, looks like 787

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoi ... ortSection

If we get European, it's Delta right? I tried looking through their airports that have lounges, and it looks decent.

I assume kci would love to launch the new airport with transatlantic service.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:41 pm If we get European, it's Delta right? I tried looking through their airports that have lounges, and it looks decent.

I assume kci would love to launch the new airport with transatlantic service.

IcelandAir is the most likely.

As I understand it, Delta has a limited number of widebodies to work with over the next few years. AF/KLM would have to fly the route and they don't do much flying outside of big cities.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:43 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:41 pm If we get European, it's Delta right? I tried looking through their airports that have lounges, and it looks decent.

I assume kci would love to launch the new airport with transatlantic service.

IcelandAir is the most likely.

As I understand it, Delta has a limited number of widebodies to work with over the next few years. AF/KLM would have to fly the route and they don't do much flying outside of big cities.

I still don't consider Iceland air useful for my needs but I'm sure it's fine for some people. I assume most of the kci traffic goes to Ireland, England, and France.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:43 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:41 pm If we get European, it's Delta right? I tried looking through their airports that have lounges, and it looks decent.

I assume kci would love to launch the new airport with transatlantic service.

IcelandAir is the most likely.

As I understand it, Delta has a limited number of widebodies to work with over the next few years. AF/KLM would have to fly the route and they don't do much flying outside of big cities.

I still don't consider Iceland air useful for my needs but I'm sure it's fine for some people. I assume most of the kci traffic goes to Ireland, England, and France.

2023/2024 Condor might become a possibility. I know, not much better then IcelandAir when it comes to legacy rewards programs.

We need to start small and build our way up to greater things in the absence of large incentive programs.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:43 pm
As I understand it, Delta has a limited number of widebodies to work with over the next few years. AF/KLM would have to fly the route and they don't do much flying outside of big cities.

There’s an interesting opportunity in Virgin Atlantic’s for London service and they expand opportunities in the Caribbean. I can see them locating here with more flights southward and throwing a few in to the UK.

They fly to LAS, WDC aND ATL today so they don’t have a Midwest nonstop city. They code share with Delta so that helps us be more Midwest competitive.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:20 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:43 pm

IcelandAir is the most likely.

As I understand it, Delta has a limited number of widebodies to work with over the next few years. AF/KLM would have to fly the route and they don't do much flying outside of big cities.

I still don't consider Iceland air useful for my needs but I'm sure it's fine for some people. I assume most of the kci traffic goes to Ireland, England, and France.

2023/2024 Condor might become a possibility. I know, not much better then IcelandAir when it comes to legacy rewards programs.

We need to start small and build our way up to greater things in the absence of large incentive programs.

Eurowings would be better. Lufthansa dumped condor and now has Eurowings as their new condor competitor. Not to say Condor is bad but Eurowings would be the better option.

dev49 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:18 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:20 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 pm

I still don't consider Iceland air useful for my needs but I'm sure it's fine for some people. I assume most of the kci traffic goes to Ireland, England, and France.

2023/2024 Condor might become a possibility. I know, not much better then IcelandAir when it comes to legacy rewards programs.

We need to start small and build our way up to greater things in the absence of large incentive programs.

Eurowings would be better. Lufthansa dumped condor and now has Eurowings as their new condor competitor. Not to say Condor is bad but Eurowings would be the better option.

Eurowings terminated all US routes. Discover has a few routes to some tourist cities.

Condor lists Lufthansa, FinnAir, SAS, LOT, Swiss as partners. In the US, they have B6, Alaska, and Hawaian.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:20 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:43 pm

IcelandAir is the most likely.

As I understand it, Delta has a limited number of widebodies to work with over the next few years. AF/KLM would have to fly the route and they don't do much flying outside of big cities.

I still don't consider Iceland air useful for my needs but I'm sure it's fine for some people. I assume most of the kci traffic goes to Ireland, England, and France.

2023/2024 Condor might become a possibility. I know, not much better then IcelandAir when it comes to legacy rewards programs.

We need to start small and build our way up to greater things in the absence of large incentive programs.

My knowledge here is very limited. If kc were to get the wc, is there an incentive structure that would make sense simply to begin ahead of time? I presume it’d be incredibly difficult to add these flights quickly, but a delta/Aeromexico/af/klm direct network would be lucrative and useful.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:15 am
My knowledge here is very limited. If kc were to get the wc, is there an incentive structure that would make sense simply to begin ahead of time? I presume it’d be incredibly difficult to add these flights quickly, but a delta/Aeromexico/af/klm direct network would be lucrative and useful.

I wouldn't expect an airline to locate here just because of a week long event. There's already one off flights for big events like a big NFL game. They would copy that model and just pay the fees needed to land in KC for a few flights.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:25 am

dev49 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:18 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:20 pm

2023/2024 Condor might become a possibility. I know, not much better then IcelandAir when it comes to legacy rewards programs.

We need to start small and build our way up to greater things in the absence of large incentive programs.

Eurowings would be better. Lufthansa dumped condor and now has Eurowings as their new condor competitor. Not to say Condor is bad but Eurowings would be the better option.

Eurowings terminated all US routes. Discover has a few routes to some tourist cities.

Condor lists Lufthansa, FinnAir, SAS, LOT, Swiss as partners. In the US, they have B6, Alaska, and Hawaian.

Eurowings “discover” flies to the US.

The breakup got pushed because of covid. Starting in March the condor/Lufthansa agreement ends.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-04-16/

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:34 pm British Airways filed for IND service, looks like 787

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoi ... ortSection

More info...

Delta dropped IND-CDG (Paris) at the start of the pandemic, and the rumor is they are not going to re-start that nonstop service. IND and MCI are now the two largest US markets without nonstop service to Europe. PDX used to be on that list, but DL re-started service from Portland to Amsterdam.

The SkyClub exclusive contract indicates to me (despite my preference for a BA/ AA operation) that Delta intends to offer some kind of nonstop service. Whether AMS or CDG I do not know. Pax, especially on business, who are flying overseas expect a lounge. In fact the only place I can think of without a lounge option matching overseas service (off the top of my head) is Las Vegas, which is heavily leisure and conventioneers.

Kansas City generates a lot of business travel to BeNeLux, Germany, and also the UK. We will see.

herrfrank wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:02 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:34 pm British Airways filed for IND service, looks like 787

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoi ... ortSection

More info...

Delta dropped IND-CDG (Paris) at the start of the pandemic, and the rumor is they are not going to re-start that nonstop service. IND and MCI are now the two largest US markets without nonstop service to Europe. PDX used to be on that list, but DL re-started service from Portland to Amsterdam.

The SkyClub exclusive contract indicates to me (despite my preference for a BA/ AA operation) that Delta intends to offer some kind of nonstop service. Whether AMS or CDG I do not know. Pax, especially on business, who are flying overseas expect a lounge. In fact the only place I can think of without a lounge option matching overseas service (off the top of my head) is Las Vegas, which is heavily leisure and conventioneers.

Kansas City generates a lot of business travel to BeNeLux, Germany, and also the UK. We will see.

Virgin and Discover are not likely. I really hope Delta does something but I doubt lounge size is really what determines. May just be a function of what worked best with the structure.

Possible IND does not happen. BA requested slots for daily service but did not get any new slots. They can use their 2 existing for twice daily service.

herrfrank wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:02 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:34 pm British Airways filed for IND service, looks like 787

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoi ... ortSection

More info...

Delta dropped IND-CDG (Paris) at the start of the pandemic, and the rumor is they are not going to re-start that nonstop service. IND and MCI are now the two largest US markets without nonstop service to Europe. PDX used to be on that list, but DL re-started service from Portland to Amsterdam.

The SkyClub exclusive contract indicates to me (despite my preference for a BA/ AA operation) that Delta intends to offer some kind of nonstop service. Whether AMS or CDG I do not know. Pax, especially on business, who are flying overseas expect a lounge. In fact the only place I can think of without a lounge option matching overseas service (off the top of my head) is Las Vegas, which is heavily leisure and conventioneers.

Kansas City generates a lot of business travel to BeNeLux, Germany, and also the UK. We will see.

Quick correction, LAS has multiple lounges. An AMEX Centurion, and a couple generic lounge providers. They do lack an airline specific lounge offering.

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:38 am

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:15 am
My knowledge here is very limited. If kc were to get the wc, is there an incentive structure that would make sense simply to begin ahead of time? I presume it’d be incredibly difficult to add these flights quickly, but a delta/Aeromexico/af/klm direct network would be lucrative and useful.

I wouldn't expect an airline to locate here just because of a week long event. There's already one off flights for big events like a big NFL game. They would copy that model and just pay the fees needed to land in KC for a few flights.

I don’t think I worded it well. But with the us and Mexico jointly hosting, it would seem like a great opportunity to use their network.

I’m not saying they would ever do something for a week of travel, but if we’re on the border if kc had incentives to give out.

It feels like an opportunity with a new terminal and a big event to really lock in frequent travelers.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:41 pm Quick correction, LAS has multiple lounges. An AMEX Centurion, and a couple generic lounge providers. They do lack an airline specific lounge offering.

Yes that is true -- I meant airline lounges. And actually UA operated a United Club there until the pandemic. But consider:

BA flies from LAS to London. Say you are sent from a software firm in Vegas to work at Canary Wharf for a week and your customer pays for Club World. You show up at LAS without an AMEX Platinum (maybe you're a millennial with a Chase Sapphire Reserve card) -- find that your British Airways flight has a three-hour delay, and now you're stuck at a noisy airport (cue slot machine noise) sitting at some crowded gate area for half a day. Not a "premium" experience.

The European and Middle Eastern carriers make profits only by their business-class product (well documented). With Vegas as the outlier, they are not content to offer service without some kind of lounge arrangement. Sometimes this is done out-of-alliance (BA using a Delta SkyClub would be a possibility, on a pay-per-visit basis), but mostly the international carriers expect their US counterparties to provide a lounge.

Likely conclusion: the large DL lounge concession indicates to me that AMS or (less likely) CDG will be our first "real" transatlantic nonstop from the new MCI.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:27 pm I’m not saying they would ever do something for a week of travel, but if we’re on the border if kc had incentives to give out.

It feels like an opportunity with a new terminal and a big event to really lock in frequent travelers.

I understood.

I'm saying the two won't be connected in any way. World Cup will have zero impact on what airlines choose to locate here.
From the viewpoint of frequent travelers, waiting three years to add service seems unrealistic.


The opportunity to gain a major airline presence because of the new terminal was two years ago and if there's one to announce, all the paperwork is signed and the announcement is probably pending the airlines branding their space.

With a little more than one year to go all the airlines are well into planning their move, not deciding how big a presence to have when they do.

herrfrank wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:36 am
Likely conclusion: the large DL lounge concession indicates to me that AMS or (less likely) CDG will be our first "real" transatlantic nonstop from the new MCI.

Because of this.

herrfrank wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:36 am Likely conclusion: the large DL lounge concession indicates to me that AMS or (less likely) CDG will be our first "real" transatlantic nonstop from the new MCI.

I’m hoping it’s AMS. Hands down the best connections I’ve had flying to Europe when I was stationed there. Could get anywhere on the continent in two flights.

Daily Toronto service launching in May 2022.

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:13 pm Daily Toronto service launching in May 2022.

Returning, technically.

Its Air Canada. They pulled out of the city in March 2020 when borders closed and are coming back with the same level of service as they had before

https://fox4kc.com/business/air-canada- ... k-in-2022/