KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

[beautyfromashes]

SW used to be my favorite simply because they typically had the lowest base ticket price and a free checked bag in addition. There has been price creep so they no longer have any favored place in my mind.

Several years ago Southwest gambled on huge gas hedges where they could basically lock in their prices for a very long time. Soon after, gas prices spiked and it gave SW a huge market advantage. Those hedges have expired in recent years causing their prices to have to rise due to cost. The advantages they built with cheaper overhead and a warchest of cash due to it has slowly started to erode to where it is now gone.

[normalthings]

SW used to be my favorite simply because they typically had the lowest base ticket price and a free checked bag in addition. There has been price creep so they no longer have any favored place in my mind.

Several years ago Southwest gambled on huge gas hedges where they could basically lock in their prices for a very long time. Soon after, gas prices spiked and it gave SW a huge market advantage. Those hedges have expired in recent years causing their prices to have to rise due to cost. The advantages they built with cheaper overhead and a warchest of cash due to it has slowly started to erode to where it is now gone.

There begins to be inefficiencies when you operate a major airline using tech and systems designed for a small airline as you mention. There also is a cost that comes along with offering 2 free checked bags and you are paying for them if you use them or not.

Southwest’s structure has prevented them from expanding to foreign POS destinations for example.

[normalthings]

2nd Europe Flight in the works for STL. Legacy Carrier.

KCI-CUN is the highest load factor CUN route for AA and WN. WN's 2nd weekly launches this week.

[trexel94]

2nd Europe Flight in the works for STL. Legacy Carrier.

KCI-CUN is the highest load factor CUN route for AA and WN. WN's 2nd weekly launches this week.

This flight won't be dipping into the $5 million incentives fund will it? I recall in the article, STL could access it too. Would be a shit situation if STL used it up and left nothing for KC.

[beautyfromashes]

I'm losing lost faith in our airport leaders.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Yeah they need to shuffle the people in charge of this if they can't get this done. It's jsut ridiculous at this point if Cincinnati & StL are on their 2nd int'l flights and KC can't even get a single one.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I think y’all are SEVERELY underestimating the importance of a corporate partner for a flight like this…KC has practically no one to step up to the plate

[STLguy1]

If STL gets another nonstop destination TATL on another carrier, it won't be because of incentives, it will be because Lufthansa is filling 90 plus percent of their flights both ways to STL. Lufthansa is a remarkable airline and for STL to have that level of wide body biz class and economy filled is what will land another legacy into wanting to compete with travelers. I read that something like 20 percent are connecting in STL to United one world partner flights and or other airlines to other USA destinations. I also read that 50 percent of the outbound pax from STL in FRA are connecting to the mid east and other EU countries.

I agree with Anthony, STL has corporate power too. A lot of it. STL's corporate landscape and GDP is huge. They are the 58th largest GPD city in the world (not usa) world. They have around 10 Fortune 500 companies and also some of the largest privately held companies (like Enterprise, Worldwide Technology and Edward Jones to name a few). So yes, the incentive monies put together are great but airlines also want their flights filling with leisure and business travelers, so it seems like that region was prime for Lufthansa and possible another legacy.

I think we will get TATL once things settle in the up/downs airlines are dealing with now. I also believe that when some smaller long haul aircraft become available we will see them.

Footnote, wife, myself and another couple are taking southwest to STL next month and then connecting (ourselves) to Lufthansa to FRA then onto Tel Aviv. It is still three flights but a good price and also figured it is better than our usual three flight connection in ORD, MIA, JFK or PHI

http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/ri ... -2020.html

[TheUrbanRoo]

I feel like if KC just gets a chance they'll fill up their int'l flight very well. Like most things in this city, they just need to get one shot to prove the concept and then the floodgates open.

[beautyfromashes]

St. Louis has a much older demographic with legacy corporations. Rightly so that they'll have more corporate and disposable income for international travel. But, it's a short-term difference. (::whispers:: old people die) and with them legacy businesses. They have more in common with Cleveland or Pittsburgh, former glory cities, than most any other city in the Central region.

[brewcrew1000]

2nd Europe Flight in the works for STL. Legacy Carrier.

KCI-CUN is the highest load factor CUN route for AA and WN. WN's 2nd weekly launches this week.

Come on United let St Louis get that nonstop to Sarajevo, I have heard so many amazing things about Bosnia. I know this flight will never happen but it would be such a cool route and one that makes sense from an ethnicity/diaspora standpoint. Would be similar other flights like Bostons nonstop flights to the Azores, Portugal and Cape Verde, Montreal to Algiers, Chicago to Krakow and Warsaw

[beautyfromashes]

Come on United let St Louis get that nonstop to Sarajevo, I have heard so many amazing things about Bosnia. I know this flight will never happen but it would be such a cool route and one that makes sense from an ethnicity/diaspora standpoint. Would be similar other flights like Bostons nonstop flights to the Azores, Portugal and Cape Verde, Montreal to Algiers, Chicago to Krakow and Warsaw

Boston has a huge Azores/Portugese Island population for some reason.

I'd love a nontraditional carrier/route connection for Kansas City. Alitalia to Rome or Milan, Iberia to Barcelona or Madrid. Of course, the network lockdown that seems to happen in Europe (OneWorld, StarAlliance and SkyTeam) limits the options for non-London/Amsterdam/Paris/Frankfurt non-stops. On the other hand, the low-cost start ups in Europe (WizzAir, Ryanair, etc) seem to feel their only option to break the network hold is to create non-stops to traditional US cities (Chicago, NY, Boston). Puts us in a less than ideal position.

[normalthings]

Yeah they need to shuffle the people in charge of this if they can't get this done. It's jsut ridiculous at this point if Cincinnati & StL are on their 2nd int'l flights and KC can't even get a single one.

Both have big community buy in. STL corps
agreed to large ticket purchase agreements. Ohio agreed to back ticket sales for Cleveland’s new Euro flight. Ohio AND Kentucky are incentivizing Cincinnati’s new London flight.

KC’s major business community has never seemed as vocal about a flight as some of the other Midwestern cities imho.

[normalthings]

Come on United let St Louis get that nonstop to Sarajevo, I have heard so many amazing things about Bosnia. I know this flight will never happen but it would be such a cool route and one that makes sense from an ethnicity/diaspora standpoint. Would be similar other flights like Bostons nonstop flights to the Azores, Portugal and Cape Verde, Montreal to Algiers, Chicago to Krakow and Warsaw

Boston has a huge Azores/Portugese Island population for some reason.

I'd love a nontraditional carrier/route connection for Kansas City. Alitalia to Rome or Milan, Iberia to Barcelona or Madrid. Of course, the network lockdown that seems to happen in Europe (OneWorld, StarAlliance and SkyTeam) limits the options for non-London/Amsterdam/Paris/Frankfurt non-stops. On the other hand, the low-cost start ups in Europe (WizzAir, Ryanair, etc) seem to feel their only option to break the network hold is to create non-stops to traditional US cities (Chicago, NY, Boston). Puts us in a less than ideal position.

KC can only hope to fill a widebody flight if there are significant connecting opportunities. It will need to be one of the 4 major alliance cities. 50% of Lufthansa St. Louis passengers are connecting on.

Narrow body opens up some route options to other hubs ( KEF, DUB).

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Come on United let St Louis get that nonstop to Sarajevo, I have heard so many amazing things about Bosnia. I know this flight will never happen but it would be such a cool route and one that makes sense from an ethnicity/diaspora standpoint. Would be similar other flights like Bostons nonstop flights to the Azores, Portugal and Cape Verde, Montreal to Algiers, Chicago to Krakow and Warsaw

Boston has a huge Azores/Portugese Island population for some reason.

I'd love a nontraditional carrier/route connection for Kansas City. Alitalia to Rome or Milan, Iberia to Barcelona or Madrid. Of course, the network lockdown that seems to happen in Europe (OneWorld, StarAlliance and SkyTeam) limits the options for non-London/Amsterdam/Paris/Frankfurt non-stops. On the other hand, the low-cost start ups in Europe (WizzAir, Ryanair, etc) seem to feel their only option to break the network hold is to create non-stops to traditional US cities (Chicago, NY, Boston). Puts us in a less than ideal position.

KC can only hope to fill a widebody flight if there are significant connecting opportunities. It will need to be one of the 4 major alliance cities. 50% of Lufthansa St. Louis passengers are connecting on.

Narrow body opens up some route options to other hubs ( KEF, DUB).

I still see Aer Lingus as possibly gunning for a Midwest opportunity, especially considering the second runway being open at DUB now. Given the current economic environment might prevent expansion anytime soon. But I digress

[trexel94]

Boston has a huge Azores/Portugese Island population for some reason.

I'd love a nontraditional carrier/route connection for Kansas City. Alitalia to Rome or Milan, Iberia to Barcelona or Madrid. Of course, the network lockdown that seems to happen in Europe (OneWorld, StarAlliance and SkyTeam) limits the options for non-London/Amsterdam/Paris/Frankfurt non-stops. On the other hand, the low-cost start ups in Europe (WizzAir, Ryanair, etc) seem to feel their only option to break the network hold is to create non-stops to traditional US cities (Chicago, NY, Boston). Puts us in a less than ideal position.

KC can only hope to fill a widebody flight if there are significant connecting opportunities. It will need to be one of the 4 major alliance cities. 50% of Lufthansa St. Louis passengers are connecting on.

Narrow body opens up some route options to other hubs ( KEF, DUB).

I still see Aer Lingus as possibly gunning for a Midwest opportunity, especially considering the second runway being open at DUB now. Given the current economic environment might prevent expansion anytime soon. But I digress

I really don't see the appeal of Aer Lingus from a strategic standpoint. I suppose its better than nothing but i'm still going to be peeved if that's what we get stuck with especially blowing the $5 million package on them. Its more expensive to fly and their connecting network isn't much better than Icelandair. The fastest growing international markets from KC are actually Asia, MEA and Africa. We need a global carrier. BA or bust.

[beautyfromashes]

KC can only hope to fill a widebody flight if there are significant connecting opportunities. It will need to be one of the 4 major alliance cities. 50% of Lufthansa St. Louis passengers are connecting on.

50% of any traffic to Frankfurt is moving on to a connection. Not many people are going to Frankfurt for a vacation.

And who are the magical corporations that St. Louis has that everyone is using as an excuse for them to get a nonstop? They have a few Fortune 500's but most are in the high 400s. And just because Cerner and old Sprint aren't headquartered here doesn't mean they aren't sending executives out from here. Panera and their shitty food can't be pushing that much traffic to Europe.

[WoodDraw]

If that's true than ask our corporations to guarantee some tickets!

[herrfrank]

Come on United let St Louis get that nonstop to Sarajevo, I have heard so many amazing things about Bosnia. I know this flight will never happen but it would be such a cool route and one that makes sense from an ethnicity/diaspora standpoint. Would be similar other flights like Bostons nonstop flights to the Azores, Portugal and Cape Verde, Montreal to Algiers, Chicago to Krakow and Warsaw

Boston has a huge Azores/Portugese Island population for some reason.

The answer is a three letter word...

cod

[dev49]

KC can only hope to fill a widebody flight if there are significant connecting opportunities. It will need to be one of the 4 major alliance cities. 50% of Lufthansa St. Louis passengers are connecting on.

50% of any traffic to Frankfurt is moving on to a connection. Not many people are going to Frankfurt for a vacation.

And who are the magical corporations that St. Louis has that everyone is using as an excuse for them to get a nonstop? They have a few Fortune 500's but most are in the high 400s. And just because Cerner and old Sprint aren't headquartered here doesn't mean they aren't sending executives out from here. Panera and their shitty food can't be pushing that much traffic to Europe.

Bayer had a very big hand in it.

Key members of the city's business community include German pharmaceutical giant Bayer, which established its North American headquarters in St. Louis.

"The amount of traffic that Bayer brings to and from this market is substantial," Hamm-Niebruegge said.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/lufthansa ... urope/amp/

St. Louis companies and organizations that committed funding to improve the region’s global economic competitiveness and help secure the flights include: Centene, Emerson, Enterprise Holdings Inc., Greater St. Louis, Inc. Hermann Companies, Hunter Engineering, Nestlé Purina PetCare, St. Louis County Port Authority, St. Louis Lambert International Airport, and the William T. Kemper Foundation.

https://greaterstlinc.com/news/stl2030- ... -lufthansa


KC needs the same kind of corporate support to land something. You need incentives and corporate support. If airlines don’t get the ticket guarantees then the best we can hope for is Icelandair coming back. It also helps when you have one organization like they did finally step to the plate to get all the corporations together. The airport can’t do it by themselves.

I am not going to argue Aer Lingus is as good as BA, Lufthansa, etc but I could live with them if that’s where we need to start to prove the market. They offer business class and have plenty of interline/codeshare agreements with major carriers. I think we will see Dublin grow as a hub as things recover.