KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Transportation topics in KC
trexel94
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by trexel94 »

UMKC Roo wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:11 am Exactly, they're not even growing at all either. It just makes no sense.

I can understand losing to IND, although I'd disagree with it -- but a stagnant Cincinnati getting a second Euro flight for doing nothing is just mind-boggling. Non-sensical.
We're about to learn a valuable lesson. Incentives aren't everything and the bigger the package, the less sustainable. CVG may be slow but it's a proven market with a larger PDEW that once had service to London during its Delta hub heyday, AA is heavily investing and is overall underserved. BA may not want to experiment with untested markets but doesn't want to fight with Delta in a larger market like MSP, DTW or SLC.

However, each new BA destination added that isn't KC reduces our chances of ever landing a TATL. LH likely won't come here, Condor is giving up on mid sized markets, Aer Lingus doesn't have planes with enough range and Delta seems to have lost interest in point-to-point service. There are only so many US cities that can support TATL and KC is nearly at the bottom of the barrel. Where's the cut off? The window is slowly closing and we REALLY need to go hard in attracting BA in 2023/24.

Wildcard is that Virgin Atlantic goes full steam with their expansion plans and perhaps one day adds KC (by the 2030s)
Last edited by trexel94 on Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by beautyfromashes »

normalthings wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:26 am And then other cities built new terminals AND raised massive piles of cash
And got the job done.
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normalthings
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings »

Ehh. Aer Lingus is growing its TATL fleet in the mid-2020s including A321s that can reach KC. JetBlue is slowly expanding Europe and will some day need a mid-America hub. Lufthansa has some growth plans too with 787s coming.

Virgin Atlantic's plans hinged on a 3rd LHR runway which will not come until the 2030s.
dev49
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by dev49 »

Is there any organization in town working on this besides the airport that actually has clout to get some real money together. The airport can only do so much. They have strict limits on what they can offer

STL didn’t get anything until Greater Stl formed and started bringing together the business community

Ohio has JobsOhio that helped get money to CLE and I would guess CVG even though it isn’t in Ohio.

KC needs some development organization to do that same kind of thing here. That’s assuming the business community is interested in putting up their own money for guarantee seats, etc.
Last edited by dev49 on Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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normalthings
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings »

KCADC put up a meager package for IcelandAir. Greater STL had firms that were willing to commit to buying tickets. KCADC has exited for a long time but idk if the businesses are there.

STL's Port I think contributed to their flight or had offered funds for a while before the officially landed it.
trexel94
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by trexel94 »

Maybe DL will abandon and it will free up a 767 for MCI-CDG instead.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 »

The business community is probably not doing us any favors when it comes to landing these international flights.
St Louis, Indy, Cincinnati, even Milwaukee all have 5-10 fortune 500 companies in their metros, I think KC has maybe 2.
TheUrbanRoo
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

Tretxel, you're saying KC is still aiming to get a BA flight in 2023 or 2024?
trexel94
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by trexel94 »

UMKC Roo wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:05 am Tretxel, you're saying KC is still aiming to get a BA flight in 2023 or 2024?
Quoting Justin from a recent interview he gave the other month stating BA is a strong possibility by 2024 if negotiations go well. Time will tell.
TheUrbanRoo
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

So then it sounds like we weren't expected to land this flight this year anyway
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FlippantCitizen
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by FlippantCitizen »

Unsurprised KC does not compete well for TATL service. Others have identified, we don’t have the companies. Such a relatively bad business community here. Not sure what the fix could be. Hard to imagine landing a big HQ and I’m drawing blanks thinking what a next homegrown champion could be.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by Cratedigger »

FlippantCitizen wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:59 am Unsurprised KC does not compete well for TATL service. Others have identified, we don’t have the companies. Such a relatively bad business community here. Not sure what the fix could be. Hard to imagine landing a big HQ and I’m drawing blanks thinking what a next homegrown champion could be.
C2FO has a large international presence.

Maybe SafetyCulture if they move their HQ to KC? That’s an Australian based company though.

Is it possible that landing a more data centers or factories may help international travel? SAP comes to mind for data centers.
trexel94
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by trexel94 »

Its especially shitty considering we have the traffic numbers, a large catchment area, a generous incentives package and now a halfway decent terminal but lack the corporate engagement. That's the only missing piece. Rock and a hard place.
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normalthings
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings »

5X Weekly to Cincinatti on 787
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Cratedigger
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by Cratedigger »

normalthings wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:44 am 5X Weekly to Cincinatti on 787
Bummer.
The flight will operate five times per week in the summer season and four in the winter.
Starting on June 5, 2023

https://www.lanereport.com/160896/2022/ ... in%202023.
msmith011
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by msmith011 »

With Delta's strong market share in KC, I'd say our best bet at transatlantic service at this point is Delta to Paris-CDG. Could also see one of Delta's partners like KLM to Amsterdam or Virgin Atlantic to London. If Cleveland's Aer Lingus service to Dublin is successful I could also see that happening... maybe.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 »

Wonder if these flights out of CVG will be advertised in Indy, Columbus, Louisville. It's gotta be intriguing for airlines to have 12 million people (6 decent sized metros) within a 100 miles of CVG. CVG is an airport to keep an eye in the next few years, could see another international flight and a focus city for someone like Breeze happen.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by STLguy1 »

I really don't think this has anything to do with our leaders *not* working to secure TATL.

1) The new terminal is not even open yet. That doesn't "rule-out" us getting TATL in the future.
2) We know that airport leaders are saying 2024 for possible service (that is if things stay on track - nothing is certain anymore these days).
3) There is an airplane shortage right now (much less staff shortages).
4) I think Cincy's new BA service may take a chunk out of Delta's Paris flight... time will tell.
5) Cincy is cargo haven - thus British is piggybacking on having some cargo on those flights (kickbacks) as well.
6) Cincy has 6 Fortune 500 companies. STL has 8. KC has 1 (we use to have 2 but Cerner fell off this last year and Seaboard in Merriam is the only one at #382.) The financial investments of these, as many have stated, are very large. Even in STL, Bayer (now owned outside former Monsanto), Enterprise, Edward Jones, Wells Fargo, Bunge and Graybar (to name a few off the top of my head) are all privately held companies with a lot of money and financial pull.*
7) Stop talking about World Cup. It is a sporting event that last 2 weeks overall and one big game. Like "normalthings" pointed out, airlines may/most likely will add some nonstop (charter and possibly regular scheduled) flights in for those weeks - but they don't look at adding flights overall and year round for events like that.
8: I am sticking with what we have heard - 2024 possibly for a TATL service commitment. That all depends on inflation, costs and equipment. Look what happened to Indy :(
9. We got Iceland Air and that was with incentives and I truly believe in time another will begin.

https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune ... 10/cities/
TheUrbanRoo
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

What cargo?
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normalthings
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings »

I wonder what if anything Icelandair adds for Summer 2023. They had planned to return to KC once 737 max came back.

Wouldn’t want to pay for it but free landing fees etc might be worth it
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