KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

[hartliss]

Didn’t we already have a Cabo flight? So the Jamaica one is new

I think you are right…either F9 or WN flew it at one point.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Didn’t we already have a Cabo flight? So the Jamaica one is new

I think you are right…either F9 or WN flew it at one point.

Cabo is an upgrade to daily service if I’m not mistaken.

[dev49]

Didn’t we already have a Cabo flight? So the Jamaica one is new

I think you are right…either F9 or WN flew it at one point.

Cabo is an upgrade to daily service if I’m not mistaken.

We didn’t have Cabo. We had Cancun and it was what was upgraded to daily.

Might have had it on vacation express charter or something but it’s been awhile if so.

Really great adds though. The Cabo one I wouldn’t have expected but is one I could use.

[dev49]

I am not sure I follow your question though?

Say the adding of a nonstop to Iceland increased demand 5x to that location. You could assume the same increase rate to other destinations in Europe. So, would the demand to a destination like Barcelona or Rome be sufficient for a nonstop flight if you see the same increase as we saw with the Iceland nonstop?

That’s not how it works. Would they be more demand? Sure but not 5x. Iceland was 5x because it went from something like single digits to 40?.

I’m guessing Rome is around 30 a day and at best maybe that goes to 50 with a nonstop.

Iceland air also was flying a narrowbody which sat 160ish? Mainland Europe would have to be a widebody which is going to be 250+. You need a whole lot more people to fill that. Especially people buying business seats.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I think you are right…either F9 or WN flew it at one point.

Cabo is an upgrade to daily service if I’m not mistaken.

We didn’t have Cabo. We had Cancun and it was what was upgraded to daily.

Might have had it on vacation express charter or something but it’s been awhile if so.

Really great adds though. The Cabo one I wouldn’t have expected but is one I could use.

That’s the upgrade I was thinking of, thank you!

[beautyfromashes]

That’s not how it works. Would they be more demand? Sure but not 5x. Iceland was 5x because it went from something like single digits to 40?.

Totally disagree. If demand for Iceland went up 5x, it’s directly because of that nonstop and the marketing of it. It wasn’t that everyone always wanted to go to Iceland. People have always wanted to go to Spain or Italy. A nonstop would more than increase demand over the Iceland rate. Also, right now, there are many people that travel around Europe. They’ll start in Paris and go to Rome or Prague or Madrid. If there was a nonstop, that would be the entry point for all those travelers. It doesn’t matter where they start and end their travels because they’re going to several cities. So, flights that go to cDG or AMS now would move to the new nonstop city. There is more than enough European demand, at least during the summer and side months, to warrant a nonstop.

[langosta]

I am going to defer to the experts who work at airlines and airports who tell me the current approach is the best and only approach.

[beautyfromashes]

I am going to defer to the experts who work at airlines and airports who tell me the current approach is the best and only approach.

That's fine. I've personally found that many times "experts" are stuck following the crowd instead of trying to cut a new path so they wait to follow the standard approach. Sometimes that works and you get the desired outcome after waiting. Many times, you're just stuck waiting, behind Indianapolis and Pittsburgh and....St. Louis. I'd take the double of a nonstop to a secondary European city instead of waiting for years more (after decades) for the HR.

[brotherdarrell]

Frontier used to fly to Cabo (SJD) stopped flying in 2015ish. That is a great get for Southwest and needed for a while.

[WoodDraw]

I think the list of people that want to go to Barcelona but don't want to connect through an airport is relatively low.

Iceland designed their flights around stopover tourism, knowing they were otherwise offering a relatively shitty experience.

I don't see any reason that would translate to European cities.

[dev49]

I am going to defer to the experts who work at airlines and airports who tell me the current approach is the best and only approach.

That's fine. I've personally found that many times "experts" are stuck following the crowd instead of trying to cut a new path so they wait to follow the standard approach. Sometimes that works and you get the desired outcome after waiting. Many times, you're just stuck waiting, behind Indianapolis and Pittsburgh and....St. Louis. I'd take the double of a nonstop to a secondary European city instead of waiting for years more (after decades) for the HR.

There is a reason Rome and other smaller European cities don't have service to the US except to a handful major hubs, the demand isn't there and adding a nonstop to a secondary US city isn't going to add enough passengers for it to be successful. Or at least not successful enough to add it over a different route. Even cities with a lot of connecting traffic to feed a flight from the US to a Rome type city don't make it. So no airline is going to even entertain KC unless you pay crazy incentives that would be more than it would cost to get one of the major european hubs. So you might as well go for a major european hub.

I can't imagine the airport isn't looking at all options and I would guess anything outside of London, Paris, Frankfurt, Dublin, Amsterdam, and Iceland isn't even on the table as a realistic option. And with how Icelandair went prior to covid it might not even be back on the table. I really think at this point Dublin is probably the most realistic ones A321XLRs get delivered. Paris probably is the 2nd best just because of Delta here.

But none of this matter anyway until businesses in town step up.

[WoodDraw]

I would take Iceland out of that list. Maybe Ireland to.

I am pretty loyal to Delta, so I can fly virgin to London, klm and air France to Europe. Super easy connections to anywhere in Europe.

The benefit of a tatl is to take out a stop on the way there and on the way back customs is far easier. But we all have lounge access so short layovers aren't a big deal (some prefer to eat, stretch, shower).

I'm not flying to Rome to go see the Vatican, and I'm not flying to Barcelona to sit on the beach. It's to get to a destination. This is where the money is.

Delta isn't going to fly a widebody full in economy and Delta One empty. Need heavy flyers that book expensive seats.

[beautyfromashes]

Delta isn't going to fly a widebody full in economy and Delta One empty. Need heavy flyers that book expensive seats.

American Airlines is getting rid of first class next year. Others will follow because there just isn't the demand for it. They're replacing first class with business. So, if you consider business the expensive seats, I guess I'd agree with you. But, that seat is not necessarily business oriented anymore. Coach has gotten so tight that many more people are choosing business class. My older parents only fly it just for the extra leg room. You're also seeing a drop in corporate travel. Why spend $Ts for a trip to Germany when you can simply videoconference? Anyway, I've given my opinion. If we have a TATL NS anytime in my lifetime, I'll be surprised at this point. I suppose we should just be celebrating the newly opened airport. It's decades past when it should have been built, but things seem to move slow in this town sometimes.

[WoodDraw]

Delta isn't going to fly a widebody full in economy and Delta One empty. Need heavy flyers that book expensive seats.

American Airlines is getting rid of first class next year. Others will follow because there just isn't the demand for it. They're replacing first class with business. So, if you consider business the expensive seats, I guess I'd agree with you. But, that seat is not necessarily business oriented anymore. Coach has gotten so tight that many more people are choosing business class. My older parents only fly it just for the extra leg room. You're also seeing a drop in corporate travel. Why spend $Ts for a trip to Germany when you can simply videoconference? Anyway, I've given my opinion. If we have a TATL NS anytime in my lifetime, I'll be surprised at this point. I suppose we should just be celebrating the newly opened airport. It's decades past when it should have been built, but things seem to move slow in this town sometimes.

They're not getting rid of it, they're just rebranding it. Delta hasn't had first class on international flights for awhile, they have Delta One. It's still a bed you can lay down in.

American has the same.

I'm most familiar with Delta but every widebody is about the same.

Economy sold at different prices points based on luggage and seats
Comfort+ which is extra leg room
Premium select which is extra leg room and fancier food and drinks
Delta One which is their premium product.

Airlines don't really use the economy, business, and first class names anymore. But they still exist. First class on Delta is worse than Delta One. It just means it's a domestic flight or very short international flight. You can get complimentary upgrades to first class, not to Delta One.

[kcjak]

I wonder what kind of return on investment would result from KC offering something like Icelandair but where travelers to the US from Europe could take advantage of a one or two night layover before proceeding to another destination?

[brewcrew1000]

I wonder what kind of return on investment would result from KC offering something like Icelandair but where travelers to the US from Europe could take advantage of a one or two night layover before proceeding to another destination?

Wonder why no US airlines offer this option. I love that Tap Portugal offers this and the airline offers really cheap flights, u can fly Chicago to Barcelona with layover in Lisbon for like 450 bucks roundtrip. Lisbon is kind of similar to KC, it's not really a place u would spend 2 weeks and is kind far from the rest of Europe, KC would would be the perfect 2-3 day layover kind of place.

[beautyfromashes]

Wonder why no US airlines offer this option. I love that Tap Portugal offers this and the airline offers really cheap flights, u can fly Chicago to Barcelona with layover in Lisbon for like 450 bucks roundtrip. Lisbon is kind of similar to KC, it's not really a place u would spend 2 weeks and is kind far from the rest of Europe, KC would would be the perfect 2-3 day layover kind of place.

I know that Icelandair was highly subsidized by the Iceland government as a way to increase tourism to the country. I think TAP is getting the same from their government. This is exactly the type of partner you’d want. They get tourists to their country (which is absolutely beautiful, btw) and we get a foothold into Europe by nonstop. Even if this is attainable, like the Icelandair deal, I don’t think our leadership would take it thinking it would hurt a potential new deal to a hub city.

[hartliss]

Delta added a second frequency between MCI and LAX, beginning in September.

Also appears that AA added a second frequency between MCI and MIA, starting in late August.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Delta added a second frequency between MCI and LAX, beginning in September.

Daily?

[hartliss]

Delta added a second frequency between MCI and LAX, beginning in September.

Daily?

Yes, 2X, daily (not sure about weekends but definitely during week)