KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

[TheUrbanRoo]

Mentioning the World Cup isn't about the one month that there will be a ton of int'l visitors in KC. It's that it's basically a very very big bat signal that the city is well on the rise and probably a good investment for the future, compared to where almost all of the Midwest is stagnant.

[STLguy1]

The World Cup is a 2 week event (if that) in the winter. I understand what you are saying, we got a big event coming, but that doesn't always mean we are a big city on the rise, it means we got a big event by way of a lot of people working to lure that event here and (like the airlines) a nice incentive purse. It was 7 years in the making as well and we have already kicked in 50 million JUST in seat upgrades at the stadium. That is tax payer dollars BTW. In addition, of all the cities we beat out (Phoenix, Denver, Orlando, Cincy and Nashville) we are well slower growth and the smallest of the 11 American metro areas that will host the World Cup 2026. It came down to location - in the middle of the country. In addition, the other 11 major cities all have major airports and I have a feeling that most will visit KC for the game and enjoy the week/weekend and depart for the next city. It's a big deal but it's not a big deal. For most of the 11 cities - it's a formality deal (meaning, they see large events all the time). I'm not poopooing on it at all. But it is like most sporting events around the world - the cities pay a lot of money and promote it as if the return will be even more, but in reality sometimes that isn't the case (except for businesses that profit off of it). Also like most sporting events, I am willing to bet that 95 percent of Americans don't know anything about professional soccer, much less the world cup or that KC is just one of 11 cities (with bigger profiles that we are). Most wouldn't know what FIFA stands for. OR can anyone here name more than one of the cities the world cup is playing in this year - most likely not. Most soccer fans around the world will see Kansas City and we may be on their radar for the game and the only time they may have even heard of KC. Bet most of us couldn't even remember the World Cup cities last time, much less who just won the world series or last year. Sporting events are a second of time in the realm of things.

YES it is great. YES it will be fun. Will Chicago, Denver or St. Louis care while it is here - probably not.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -host-city

[STLguy1]

I agree normalthings... IcelandAir coming back would be great. The only thing I think is happening with them is they are spread too thin on aircraft and staffing right now.

[alejandro46]

I’m just bummed no BA announcement. I kind of got my hopes up a bit.

[normalthings]

I’m just bummed no BA announcement. I kind of got my hopes up a bit.

There is a little tiny fraction of hope something else happens.

Delta may very well drop Cincinnati-Paris and could put that on KC-Paris or IND-Paris.
Lufthansa did not announce St. Louis until December of last year.
Virgin Atlantic is rumored to be mulling some new US routes.

With Justin Meyer out in the news saying its not happening, I do have little hope.

[dev49]

Delta just announced a bigger the plane on the CVG-CDG route so I’m not sure it goes away. But it will be interesting to see what happens. For all we know Delta could try to defend turf and add more flights to fend off BA. Some want to compare it to when BA went into PIT but Delta was basically already out the door and PIT wasn’t a Delta stronghold like CVG is, even if it’s not as strong as it used to be.

I agree with the some are overblowing the World Cup influence. I probably couldn’t tell you 80% of the cities in any recent World Cup and I at least somewhat follow soccer. It’s good publicity in the moment but I wonder how much carry over there really is.

Iceland air is an interesting thought. I had sort of forgotten about it. But I agree besides some landing fees and the standard stuff I wouldn’t be putting up much money for it. Maybe a little marketing expense.

I still think someone shows up in the next few years, but I’m not sure 2024 will even be the year at this point, unless it’s an icelandair type. Eurowings discover would be interesting but I haven’t heard any chatter about it.

[trexel94]

I’m just bummed no BA announcement. I kind of got my hopes up a bit.

There is a little tiny fraction of hope something else happens.

Delta may very well drop Cincinnati-Paris and could put that on KC-Paris or IND-Paris.
Lufthansa did not announce St. Louis until December of last year.
Virgin Atlantic is rumored to be mulling some new US routes.

With Justin Meyer out in the news saying its not happening, I do have little hope.

Could you clarify? Justin seemed more motivated and confident than ever in landing TATL. I thought it was his one of his top priorities? What happened to his goal of landing BA by 2024 or Delta launching something? Remember, he has a tendency to downplay or dismiss speculation.

[normalthings]

I’m just bummed no BA announcement. I kind of got my hopes up a bit.

There is a little tiny fraction of hope something else happens.

Delta may very well drop Cincinnati-Paris and could put that on KC-Paris or IND-Paris.
Lufthansa did not announce St. Louis until December of last year.
Virgin Atlantic is rumored to be mulling some new US routes.

With Justin Meyer out in the news saying its not happening, I do have little hope.

Could you clarify? Justin seemed more motivated and confident than ever in landing TATL. I thought it was his one of his top priorities? What happened to his goal of landing BA by 2024 or Delta launching something? Remember, he has a tendency to downplay or dismiss speculation.

We are the same page. He is saying 2024 so my hope for an announcement for this coming summer is now minimal.

[TheUrbanRoo]

You guys are underselling the World Cup. For LA or NYC? Sure, it's not a game-changer. For a city at KC's size? It is absolutely a game-changer. It is a bigger deal for the city than anything else we could ever do or get and it will change it.

This Kansas City's only chance to bring people to see all the cool urbanism we've done in the city from 2006-2026. We can build all these great things like the 670 cap, Royals, new streetcar, big new towers, etc...but how is anyone ever going to see this stuff we built?

Can you think of a better way of getting to show off all of those projects than the World Cup?

Word will spread, reporters will write articles about their "surprisingly great time getting to take free streetcar after shopping at the Plaza to dinner on the 670 cap and a Royals game downtown" etc. Very likely this will happen.

Is there a carryover effect? Absolutely. Plenty of stories have been written about the lasting impact of the Olympics on Atlanta long term. Many credit that for the real rise of that city. The key to the World Cup is that it will finally put eye balls on what we've been doing here. We haven't boomed yet because we haven't had something like this to draw people in to give us a real look. When people finally saw Atlanta, they boomed. After you get the eye balls, the city is elevated and you can start forcing the hand on getting things like flights, more investment, etc. That's what Atlanta did, and for city like KC that is much smaller we should get atleast some of that impact as well because we have even more room to grow than a 1996 Atlanta did.

This sums it up well: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... ify%20wall

[normalthings]

Apples and Oranges to the extreme.

Take some time to look into the size and scale of the investments Atlanta made then compare to the small and relatively temporary things KC will be doing.

[TheUrbanRoo]

It's gonna take years. It won't happen overnight. But that's the path I think we're headed on, with the World Cup speeding up massive projects like 670 cap, Barney Allis, the Royals, and many others. That's just my opinion.

I would also point out that the author of that article I posted above is an Atlanta resident who writes about cities & growth. His words comparing ATL 1996 Olympics to KC's 2026 WC bid impact. I recommend the article.

[herrfrank]

The BA announcement was a disappointment, but it does not mean that the BA talks are not still ongoing with MCI. The underlying opportunity is that international customers in the KC catchment (which includes the area from Omaha to Springfield MO, and from Wichita to Des Moines) now have many options to fly to, say, Bombay or Ankara or Hamburg. All three alliances get them to these locations with two stops, one in a US hub and one in a European hub. The key to win this business is to have a nonstop from KC to the European hub, eliminating the irritating stop in Chicago or Detroit or Atlanta or Dallas. That will always get the business -- I have never known a legit business traveler who would take two stops when one-stop is available, except in IRROPS.

The O&D traffic KC-London is just a bonus. It's really about the network.

BA to CVG is a direct challenge to Delta/ Skyteam. It is certainly going to be interesting to watch that market. I would expect discounts and various competitive offerings (like double tier points on BA). Not sure what lounge BA is going to use, no way would DL lease access to its SkyClub to them. They may have to build a Terraces lounge there, which is sub-optimal.

This also explains why AA has not moved on its potential Admirals Club in the new terminal, at the end of the first concourse.

[SingleMalt12]

... The underlying opportunity is that international customers in the KC catchment (which includes the area from Omaha to Springfield MO, and from Wichita to Des Moines) now have many options to fly to, say, Bombay or Ankara or Hamburg. All three alliances get them to these locations with two stops, one in a US hub and one in a European hub. The key to win this business is to have a nonstop from KC to the European hub, eliminating the irritating stop in Chicago or Detroit or Atlanta or Dallas. That will always get the business -- I have never known a legit business traveler who would take two stops when one-stop is available, except in IRROPS. ...

I used to live in Omaha. When Southwest came to KC I would on occasion drive to KC to take advantage of the cheap flights to Chicago. The fact is that the roughly 3 hour drive was a pain. Not to mention the cost of parking. Yeah the Omaha airport also charges for parking but most of the time I'd get a ride from a friend. I hated the drive back. Already tired and have to drive 3 hours. That legit business traveler may not like 2 stops but unless he lives near KC he also hates the drive. Oh, and in the winter it really sucks. Interstate blocked by accident & that 3 hour drive is now 5 hours? Mr. Legit won't forget that.

With regard to catchment, let's take a look at KC vs CVG:
Call it 175 miles. KC=about 6,250,000 CVG=16,500,000

[GRID]

While we fly international out of BWI and IAD when nonstops are cheap and available, we also often take the train or even drive up to NYC airports for international flights because flights out of NY are so much cheaper. And I pretty much HATE connecting flights. Direct is the way to go for international flights.

I would think that KC would have a massive area to pull from for a flight to a major hub like London or Frankfurt.


Then again maybe not? I always think of Omaha, Wichita etc, but compared to nearly any other part of the country, KC Has very few people within a few hours drive of it.

With regard to catchment, let's take a look at KC vs CVG:
Call it 175 miles. KC=about 6,250,000 CVG=16,500,000

[normalthings]

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... tives.html

[dukuboy1]

A lot can in the next 3.5 yrs. I mean new KCI open in FEB, April NFL draft is in town to be 1st big event for KC. Not to mention NCAA hoops before. But I think KC will be in a bit of a “groove” leading up to 2026. Strike while iron is hot and get some businesses to relocate, grow what we have & airlines & flights will notice

[normalthings]

Sun Country will end up being more than 2 flights a week.

Article;

But here’s where it gets really interesting. The deal with Major League Soccer requires schedules to be published and delivered to Sun Country well in advance. Normally in a charter world, Sun Country would fly a plane into a city empty, pick up a team, and take them to their destination. Now that Sun Country will be up to serving 23 of the 26 US MLS cities (adding Charlotte, Columbus, Kansas City, and St Louis in this round), it will be able to bring the airplanes in as scheduled service, then turn around and take the teams out.

I wanted to know how that works, because there’s no way that Sun Country can know that teams will travel every Friday and every Monday. And Grant agreed that won’t happen. Instead, Sun Country can launch service in these markets on a regular scheduled basis. Then when it knows its MLS schedule — still well in advance of travel to allow for a long enough booking window — it can add extra frequencies to line up with when the charters will operate, giving it a more appealing schedule with little additional cost.

https://crankyflier.com/2022/11/21/sun- ... wth-plans/

[dev49]

Saw this snippet in relation to KCI from this article. It would be about normal to think we are getting some money for a flight and then it not end up happening

Lawmakers also earmarked $5 million to boost international passenger flights to and from Missouri, but that plan has been put on hold until next year.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ecb46.html

[normalthings]

IcelandAir adding Detroit

[Anthony_Hugo98]

IcelandAir adding Detroit

I’m think they bring us back once they get their entire Max fleet up, weren’t nearly all their flights full coming out of here?