KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Transportation topics in KC
herrfrank
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by herrfrank »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:02 pm I just don't agree with the thought that it has to be a hub or nothing at all, AMS/CDG/LHR or bust. Prove demand with another major city. We pack planes to Rome or Barcelona or Madrid, the hubs will likely notice and respond. We need a proof of concept. I know so many people who would go to any city that's a nonstop. So many people went to Iceland that wouldn't have otherwise due to the nonstop.
Madrid or Helsinki or Istanbul would all be interesting, as they are each hubs for a secondary EU airline. Iberia is actually owned by the parent company of British Airways, so that could be a factor.

Istanbul would be amazing, but unlikely. Opens up a lot of Asian markets and they don't have the same "conflict overfly" problems as the big EU carriers.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss »

dev49 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:43 pm
langosta wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:10 pm
Cratedigger wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:00 pm https://www.fultonsun.com/news/2023/mar ... e-mission/

Mike Parson is traveling to Sweden and Germany. Meeting with executives from Lufthansa while over there
Justin Meyer tweeted that Lufthansa was talking to KC last week
I imagine they are talking to lots of airlines, if not they aren’t doing their job. I’m not going to get my hopes up. The gov makes trips like this every year.

How many times have we seen political leaders or airline people in London over the last decade. Still no flights there. I am not going to read anything into it.
I read that Denver sent a delegation to Ethiopia and Egypt trying to pull something off: https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news ... light.html
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:02 pm I just don't agree with the thought that it has to be a hub or nothing at all, AMS/CDG/LHR or bust. Prove demand with another major city. We pack planes to Rome or Barcelona or Madrid, the hubs will likely notice and respond. We need a proof of concept. I know so many people who would go to any city that's a nonstop. So many people went to Iceland that wouldn't have otherwise due to the nonstop.
The hub helps purely for the connection components as you know. While N/S to those other cities would be great, there isn’t enough O/D to justify the flight (even with subsidies) and poor connection options ensures that no airline would ever touch a route like that.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by Highlander »

hartliss wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:27 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:02 pm I just don't agree with the thought that it has to be a hub or nothing at all, AMS/CDG/LHR or bust. Prove demand with another major city. We pack planes to Rome or Barcelona or Madrid, the hubs will likely notice and respond. We need a proof of concept. I know so many people who would go to any city that's a nonstop. So many people went to Iceland that wouldn't have otherwise due to the nonstop.
The hub helps purely for the connection components as you know. While N/S to those other cities would be great, there isn’t enough O/D to justify the flight (even with subsidies) and poor connection options ensures that no airline would ever touch a route like that.
O/D depends on frequency of flights and size of the plane. KC could never fill a Airbus 380 or 747 on a regular flight but an A330-300 with 330 capacity or an Airbus 350 (315 capacity) seems within the realm of possibility to a European hub once a week in the summer months. Those are the two smaller Lufthansa aircraft for their USA routes.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by beautyfromashes »

hartliss wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:27 pm The hub helps purely for the connection components as you know. While N/S to those other cities would be great, there isn’t enough O/D to justify the flight (even with subsidies) and poor connection options ensures that no airline would ever touch a route like that.
What was the percentage increase in flights to Iceland when we got a nonstop there?
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by langosta »

Highlander wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:47 pm
hartliss wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:27 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:02 pm I just don't agree with the thought that it has to be a hub or nothing at all, AMS/CDG/LHR or bust. Prove demand with another major city. We pack planes to Rome or Barcelona or Madrid, the hubs will likely notice and respond. We need a proof of concept. I know so many people who would go to any city that's a nonstop. So many people went to Iceland that wouldn't have otherwise due to the nonstop.
The hub helps purely for the connection components as you know. While N/S to those other cities would be great, there isn’t enough O/D to justify the flight (even with subsidies) and poor connection options ensures that no airline would ever touch a route like that.
O/D depends on frequency of flights and size of the plane. KC could never fill a Airbus 380 or 747 on a regular flight but an A330-300 with 330 capacity or an Airbus 350 (315 capacity) seems within the realm of possibility to a European hub once a week in the summer months. Those are the two smaller Lufthansa aircraft for their USA routes.
KC could likely fill a daily A330 to LHR, CDG, AMS, or FRA with O/D and connecting. KC could not fill one to Rome or some other non-major hub.

KC to the big 4 Euro hubs is any tier 2-3 Euro city to Atlanta or JFK.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by langosta »

https://simpleflying.com/kansas-city-ma ... -analyzed/
With about 77,500 transit passengers, San Diego was the biggest underserved market; more than half of passengers (54%) transited. Then Cancun (76,500; 67%), Portland (Oregon; 75,300; 79%), San Francisco (64,000; 76%), and Raleigh Durham (62,700; 88%).
Could see more service to these cities. # connecting on the top 3 routes is enough to fill a mainline flight

SD: 115 Passengers Per Day
Cancun: 140 Passengers Per Day
Portland: 163 Passengers Per Day
RDU: 151 Passengers Per Day
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

langosta wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:31 pm https://simpleflying.com/kansas-city-ma ... -analyzed/
With about 77,500 transit passengers, San Diego was the biggest underserved market; more than half of passengers (54%) transited. Then Cancun (76,500; 67%), Portland (Oregon; 75,300; 79%), San Francisco (64,000; 76%), and Raleigh Durham (62,700; 88%).
Could see more service to these cities. # connecting on the top 3 routes is enough to fill a mainline flight

SD: 115 Passengers Per Day
Cancun: 140 Passengers Per Day
Portland: 163 Passengers Per Day
RDU: 151 Passengers Per Day
It seems the far flung costal destinations will be ripe for connections through the new facility. Is that enough capacity to fill a mainline for each destination, or total for all of them?
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by langosta »

This is why we built a new terminal! Hope this is just the beginning of airline expansion in KC.

Image
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by WoodDraw »

I expect Delta to expand. They leased an extra gate and built the lounge.

I think they'll look at Americans business travel and go after them and try to status match them to Delta now with the lounge.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by dev49 »

hartliss wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:25 pm
dev49 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:43 pm
langosta wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:10 pm

Justin Meyer tweeted that Lufthansa was talking to KC last week
I imagine they are talking to lots of airlines, if not they aren’t doing their job. I’m not going to get my hopes up. The gov makes trips like this every year.

How many times have we seen political leaders or airline people in London over the last decade. Still no flights there. I am not going to read anything into it.
I read that Denver sent a delegation to Ethiopia and Egypt trying to pull something off: https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news ... light.html
:shock:
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by dev49 »

WoodDraw wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:14 pm I expect Delta to expand. They leased an extra gate and built the lounge.

I think they'll look at Americans business travel and go after them and try to status match them to Delta now with the lounge.
I know many want to see Southwest grow a bunch but I’d rather see Delta pick up any slack. Better product and when combined with partners, including a Europe flight, I just get a lot more excited out their possibilities than anything Southwest could realistically offer
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss »

Boom!

https://swamedia.com/releases/release-f ... gh-october

More seasonal, N/S, int’l destinations!
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by langosta »

DALLAS – Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV) today is preparing for October travel by extending its flight schedule through Nov. 4, 2023, and making the airline's robust flight schedule available for booking at Southwest.com.

Kansas City Travelers Have More International Options

On the heels of Kansas City, Mo., opening its new state-of-the-art terminal last week, Southwest® is boosting its international offering with the addition of two nonstop routes.

Effective Oct. 7, 2023, Southwest will offer seasonal service on Saturdays between:

Kansas City, Mo. and Montego Bay, Jamaica*

Kansas City, Mo. and Cabo San Lucas/Los Cabos*

*Subject to government approval

Both new routes complement the carrier's existing service between Kansas City and Cancun which seasonally adjusts to daily service beginning Oct. 5, 2023.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by Cratedigger »

Hell yeah. Been missing Rick's cafe
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss »

Highlander wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:47 pm
hartliss wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:27 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:02 pm I just don't agree with the thought that it has to be a hub or nothing at all, AMS/CDG/LHR or bust. Prove demand with another major city. We pack planes to Rome or Barcelona or Madrid, the hubs will likely notice and respond. We need a proof of concept. I know so many people who would go to any city that's a nonstop. So many people went to Iceland that wouldn't have otherwise due to the nonstop.
The hub helps purely for the connection components as you know. While N/S to those other cities would be great, there isn’t enough O/D to justify the flight (even with subsidies) and poor connection options ensures that no airline would ever touch a route like that.
O/D depends on frequency of flights and size of the plane. KC could never fill a Airbus 380 or 747 on a regular flight but an A330-300 with 330 capacity or an Airbus 350 (315 capacity) seems within the realm of possibility to a European hub once a week in the summer months. Those are the two smaller Lufthansa aircraft for their USA routes.
Yes, this is plausible. Folks are also interested to see with the A321XLR can do as deliveries continue, it carries up to 220 and has a range of 5500 MI (could make it to LHR or DUB, etc). This is the aircraft AerLingus will use to serve CLE-DUB at some point I believe.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss »

beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:12 pm
hartliss wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:27 pm The hub helps purely for the connection components as you know. While N/S to those other cities would be great, there isn’t enough O/D to justify the flight (even with subsidies) and poor connection options ensures that no airline would ever touch a route like that.
What was the percentage increase in flights to Iceland when we got a nonstop there?
The N/S to Iceland definitely helps to stimulate demand, as those who may have never visited Iceland could do so at the continence of that flight. I am not sure I follow your question though? To clarify, I want N/S to Europe to happen more than anyone. I am just regurgitating what has been told to me over the years by the Justin Meyer’s of the world.
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by beautyfromashes »

hartliss wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:55 am I am not sure I follow your question though?
Say the adding of a nonstop to Iceland increased demand 5x to that location. You could assume the same increase rate to other destinations in Europe. So, would the demand to a destination like Barcelona or Rome be sufficient for a nonstop flight if you see the same increase as we saw with the Iceland nonstop?
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

Didn’t we already have a Cabo flight? So the Jamaica one is new
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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss »

beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:02 pm
hartliss wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:55 am I am not sure I follow your question though?
Say the adding of a nonstop to Iceland increased demand 5x to that location. You could assume the same increase rate to other destinations in Europe. So, would the demand to a destination like Barcelona or Rome be sufficient for a nonstop flight if you see the same increase as we saw with the Iceland nonstop?
Ahh ok, makes sense. I honestly don’t really know other than generally speaking a N/S to any destination will stimulate o/d demand. Just not sure to what extent
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