OFFICIAL - Hotel President construction

Post by **dangerboy** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 7:30 am

Tall buildings might be impressive to some people driving by, but the mark of a great city is the action taking place on the street.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 9:22 am

Devon:

You really need to read and absorb what I say more slowly. LOL.

The Waldheim building didn't take up the entire block that Commerce Bank and Arcade--and the parking garage--now occupy. It only had its footprint at the SW corner on 11th and Main--across from the Harzfeld Building. The new building that is on that exact footprint (of the old Waldheim) is only about 6-ish stories tall--maybe less. The Waldheim was 16 stories. The taller Commerce Tower is at the other end of the block completely (on 10th street), and it doesn't sit over where the Waldheim was.

I didn't say the Commerce Tower wasn't taller than the Waldheim, I was just talking about the new building that is actually on the old Waldheims part of that block. Plus, the new building that sits on the old Waldheim footprint is mostly empty now. So much for new and modern!

There are plenty of empty lots around downtown where one can build tall buildings. That is not the problem. The problem is that we don't need to tear down old buildings to replace them with taller buildings. Why do that when there are acres of empty lots available? Kansas City needs to stop creating more vacant lots; and devote more of its attention to filling up the ones that already exist.

Empty space in a downtown business district creates a no-man's land where pedestrians don't venture. It also produces no activity in the area, as well as no significant property or sales taxes.

The other thing about really tall buildings is that they are really hard to fill when one of the bigger tenants decides to skip town, goes bankrupt, or moves to Johnson County because they got a better deal. It's not easy finding a tenant that wants 10 full floors.

However, in smaller buildings, when that happens, it is easier to find replacement tenants because there are a lot more smaller firms or businesses in the area than there are large tenants.

When the Empire State Building, and the World Trade Center towers, were constructed, it took many years to fill them up. If I recall correctly, after the Empire State Bldg. opened, it was only about 25 percent occupied for the first 10 years of its existence. In fact, it was given the nickname, the Empty State Building, for many years.

As far as existing tall buildings go, I agree with the comment made about the AT&T Longlines Building. It is hideous. The City Center Square Tower is also hideous. It's a big concrete bunker that was built on the cheap. It isn't even pleasant to look at. While the AT&T Pavilion is tall, it is at least attractive.

Now, I'm not against tall buildings. I actually love skyscrapers. After all, I lived in New York City for 10 years. However, Kansas City cannot support a lot of tall buildings yet. And every time a new skyscraper is constructed in a city like Kansas City, it often results in a bunch of smaller buildings sitting empty for long periods of time.

Without tenants, the owner skimps on the maintenance. Then those buildings become blighted properties, torn down, and more empty space is created.

Cities have to be very careful about how quickly they add new space--making sure that the demand is there before constructing. There are many other economic factors that can kill downtowns. One big employer who occupies a skyscraper goes bankrupt, and that building sits empty for years. Then a domino effect is created. Restaurants and retail businesses are forced to close, etc.

The City made a huge mistake in years past by allowing zoning changes in the Plaza District. They made it possible for big firms to move down there and leave vacant buildings in downtown, so the retail was diluted. Then you have competing business districts: Downtown, Crown Center, and The Plaza. Having all three weakens any chance of creating a vibrant, active business center.

The City would be better served if it placed a moratorium on new commercial buildings over 4-stories in the Plaza District. However, I doubt the Mayor and City Council should be trusted to stick to that. So the public should have initiate some type of referendum preventing them from doing so for a certain period--like 10 years.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:25 pm

get used to hideous buildings, taller is always better, KC will have a 1000ft building some day I promise, we can fill the spaces in time, just think
hey, its the architects who decide the actual height of the buildings, the people who own the land choose what they want it to be, like 10-30 floors, or a certain square footage, architects can decide how they want it built. If we have to sacrifice historic buildings, so be it, people later on will regard todays newer buildings as historic, you can't preserve something forever.
The longlines buildings are all ugly, including the one in NYC.
Expanding out sucks and it should not be allowed to happen, save land for housing and retail purposes.
Again, taller is ALWAYS ALWAYS better, not matter how hideous or boring the design.

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:16 pm

Devin,

I hate to put it this way... But you are wrong. The architect designs the building, the developer and the tenant(s) decide how big the building is going to be. When my company decided to move to Crown Center, do you think the architect decided how big to make the building? No, my company said "Hey CC Development Co., we need 300,000 (or whatever) square feet with large floor plates.â€

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:58 pm

Even in the most nationalized economy large buildings would not be built without the chance to at least break even financially. In a capitalist economy, which is all about making money, a building will never be built, just to make the skyline look good. The only possible exception to this would be the World Trade Center, and the only reason something tall (by NYC standards) would ever be built there is to make a patriotic statemnt. Before the attacks, they were struggling to bring in business and were relying on federal offices. Now, how many businesses would take the risk to locate there?

To improve the skyline we need to attract a lot more business and a lot more people. I would think that increased residential will help, though, but the best way to improve vacancy rates downtown and to hopefullly build more in the future is to create a thriving streetscape that businesses will be attracted to.

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:59 pm

All that said, though, Devin, I admire your enthusiasm and I hope we can get more people who think like you in positions of power!

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:51 pm

Devin,

I'm sorry if I sounded mean or bitchy. Sometimes I get a little out of hand on these debates. You should see me and my sister argue about stuff (only, usually she is screaming and I am talking calmly). I do enjoy your idealism and hope that it does not die out. I hope you can do many things to improve the city and help it grow. We all have things to learn, me included. And I hope you can accept my apology for the smack-in-the-face economics lesson above.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:47 pm

they are in the process of installing a fence in the street beside the parking garage attached to the Empire, along Baltimore, just south of the President. Also a bulldozer was there today around noonish. Are they about to begin demolition? The garage must have looked pretty cool in its day, but is nasty now. Whats up?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:50 pm

I can't get info out of anybody....

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:56 pm

well that can't be good.

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:33 pm

Time to get the camera ready for last minute photos?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:36 pm

hmm not good at all.
which building is the empire theatre?

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:03 pm

It's this one:
http://www.kclibrary.org/lhimgs/kcpl/re ... 49_reg.jpg

At one point it was in the P&L District. Most recently it was proposed for a local House of Blues location, but unfortunately the HoB franchise-holder in KC sold out to Clear Channel and abandoned that plan. Anyone know who owns it now?

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:02 pm

So who is volunteering to flop down in front of the bulldozer?

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:23 pm

I have an hour for lunch every day... Could we take shifts?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:55 pm

wow this thread is at 2201 views :O

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:21 am

The owners of the Empire Theater building are listed as:

G DOWNTOWN REDEV PARTNERS
PO BOX 12625
OVERLAND PARK, KS, 66212

I don't know if they own the parking structure on Baltimore though.

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:38 pm

Y'all needsta chill! They are not tearing down the Empire. They are tearing down the parking garage behind it. They are doing so carefully, probably so they can sell the parts. Didn't Mayor Barnes put the Empire on a do not destroy list a while back (heard that from a reliable source who saw it in the KCBJ).

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:16 am

According to a source at City Hall, Executive Hills Inc. owns the Empire Theater and the parking garage on 14th and Baltimore. Their phone number is 913-451-9000.

G Downtown Redev. Partners appears to be a partnership in which Executive Hills is a major shareholder. I haven't been able to find out who else might be involved in G Downtown Redev. Partners.

Larry Bridges is president of Executive Hills Inc. They have corporate offices in Overland Park, and downtown at 1200 Main. 816-221-2901. Executive Hills Inc. owns One Kansas City Place.

Executive Hills Inc. is in the process of purchasing the former Jones Store property for the purpose of constructing a 1500-space underground parking garage with a park at ground level.

It is part of Bridges' effort to lure Waddell and Reed Financial downtown--to One Kansas City Place. They are seeking Modesa money to fund a portion of the parking structure. The TIF financing is estimated to be around $28 million.

Larry Bridges is also on the Downtown Council, a private property owner group, and he is a member of the Greater Kansas City Development Authority.

The Greater Kansas City Development Authority makes recommendations to the Mayor, City Council, and the City Public Improvements Advisory Committee on how to spend public money--like those funds approved by voters last fall in the general obligations bond election.

Other sources: Kansas City Business Journal, Kansas City Star

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:32 am

Demolition of the parking garage on the southeast corner of 14th and Baltimore (next to the Empire Theater) has begun.

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