Capping the Loop

[DColeKC]

Also, my apartment in 2L overlooks grand.

Can you be one those current Light residents who pre-leases a unit at 3L so we can get the numbers up there and get them to trigger the 4L start?

No thanks! I’m done with my light tour but will keep that apartment for as long as I can. I did the one to two move. I was the first to occupy my units in each building so it’s been a fun experience. Seeing it go from dirt to a home.

[im2kull]

Why can't KC Live @ the P&L District be used for fan fests.. you know.. as it has and is? Saying that Grand has to be closed for fan fests is laughable when there's one being held in an excellent, purpose built outdoor courtyard RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.



If you really believe it's only closed at the times you listed then there's a HUGE disconnect between management and what's actually occurring. As someone who drives down Grand every day and is inconvenienced by this closure almost every day, I can confirm it's closed almost every day. Def more than 3 days a month, and usually for the entire day.. not just 1 hour before door times and 1 hour after egress. In fact, I'm betting if I walk outside right now and take a look across the street.. it's closed.

If management really think the times you mentioned are when Grand is closed then they're about as misinformed as they were the other day when the barriers were all placed in the bike lanes and blocked the bike lanes for a day and a half. Obviously management didn't know those were there.. so ...





That's a terrible take and policy if true. Closing Grand doesn't enhance pedestrian safety. There are NO pedestrians in Grand during T-Mobile events that couldn't be on the sidewalks or in the massive outdoor plaza and ticketing area RIGHT IN FRONT of T-Mobile center. In fact, at least 90% of the people in the arena area during events ARE on the sidewalks and in the plaza, despite the street being closed. NOBODY is using the street, because NOBODY is hanging around outside the event venue when they're sole purpose in life at that moment is to get inside to THE event. There's MAYBE 150 people outside at any given time. It's not like 10K concertgoers are hanging around outside. The few that are typically hang out near ticketing and the entry while waiting to enter, or are in the large parking lot to the North. The giant, humongous parking lot. The one where virtually everyone is. If anything should be closed off for pedestrian safety, that should be.

The live block can’t fit a basketball court, or vehicles, or tractors, or experience activations like the Monday Night Football bus and setup.

My example of when it should be closed is a reference to how it used to be managed. Not until the donut kings became an issue did the weekend closures start.

It needs to closed because 80% of the event goers cross grand before and after the concert. It’s not about a hang out zone it’s just about people not getting smoked by a car or murdered by a deliberate driver. Def inconvenient but I’d rather piss off people and take 2 minutes from their day opposed to anyone being killed crossing the street to attend an event.

Also, my apartment in 2L overlooks grand.

Why don't they just put an underground passage beneath Grand to the TMobile Center from the P&L Garage? Seems like the best solution as the garages at P&L are probably the primary parking area for events. It is a shame nobody thought of this during construction as they were built almost concurrently.

Because pedestrian safety isn't an actual problem in that area. There's hardly ever anyone in or near the road, even when it's closed. Everyone is walking from the massive parking lot to the north, or using the crosswalks and walking INTO the T-Mobile arena. There's no bottleneck or crowd or real issue.. apart from the street being closed for no real reason.

[normalthings]

I think that one of the busiest events I have seen head into P&L was for a National sports event(not B12). There was a constant stream at 13th, P&L, etc it seemed. There was not much in-terms of non-crosswalk traffic. There was no event on Grand but the street was closed. Despite the streets being closed, many waited to cross when the crosswalks were turned off.

Anyways, the pedestrians benefitted from not dealing with cars but I didn't think the impact was that great.

NormalThings Solution:

1. Temporary Median on Grand to prevent sideshows: Up before, during, and after events. Break at the P&L to TMC crosswalk
2. Traffic police direct pedestrians (iirc, traffic police were there anyways as they are often).
3. Do not close Grand to cars


I would hate to put an under or overpass in. But it's the next best after what I put above (I think).

[normalthings]

What would we have done if Grand Streetcar or LRT was built!!!!!!!!!

[Highlander]

I think that one of the busiest events I have seen head into P&L was for a National sports event(not B12). There was a constant stream at 13th, P&L, etc it seemed. There was not much in-terms of non-crosswalk traffic. There was no event on Grand but the street was closed. Despite the streets being closed, many waited to cross when the crosswalks were turned off.

Anyways, the pedestrians benefitted from not dealing with cars but I didn't think the impact was that great.

NormalThings Solution:

1. Temporary Median on Grand to prevent sideshows: Up before, during, and after events. Break at the P&L to TMC crosswalk
2. Traffic police direct pedestrians (iirc, traffic police were there anyways as they are often).
3. Do not close Grand to cars


I would hate to put an under or overpass in. But it's the next best after what I put above (I think).

I do not understand why an underpass would be so bad. One way to do it would be to permanently close off 14th street half way between Grand and Walnut and slope the eastern part of the street into an underpass. It would wide, easily accessed, well lit and well connected to the P&L District. Not some tight dingy place people are afraid of at night. And 14th isn't really the busiest street in downtown; it would not hurt to lose half a block - it's utility as an east-west street is already compromised but the arena being there.

[normalthings]

I think that one of the busiest events I have seen head into P&L was for a National sports event(not B12). There was a constant stream at 13th, P&L, etc it seemed. There was not much in-terms of non-crosswalk traffic. There was no event on Grand but the street was closed. Despite the streets being closed, many waited to cross when the crosswalks were turned off.

Anyways, the pedestrians benefitted from not dealing with cars but I didn't think the impact was that great.

NormalThings Solution:

1. Temporary Median on Grand to prevent sideshows: Up before, during, and after events. Break at the P&L to TMC crosswalk
2. Traffic police direct pedestrians (iirc, traffic police were there anyways as they are often).
3. Do not close Grand to cars


I would hate to put an under or overpass in. But it's the next best after what I put above (I think).

I do not understand why an underpass would be so bad. One way to do it would be to permanently close off 14th street half way between Grand and Walnut and slope the eastern part of the street into an underpass. It would wide, easily accessed, well lit and well connected to the P&L District. Not some tight dingy place people are afraid of at night. And 14th isn't really the busiest street in downtown; it would not hurt to lose half a block - it's utility as an east-west street is already compromised but the arena being there.

Just a cost thing. Looking for easy solutions today.

Like I said, turning the stadium towards 14th seems like a good mid-life renovation strategy.

[moderne]

I don't understand. 14th and Grand is a "T" intersection. What would be underpassed beside Grand, the arena? The arena already is turned toward 14th. Do you all mean 13th?

[DColeKC]

I don’t know if I explained this very well but the plan from the start was to close Grand for event attendees to cross Grand. That’s why they invested in the street bollards. The ability to utilize Grand for activations is secondary.

The consistent closures of Grand due to the donut kings is unfortunately a short term solution that no one wants to do but the city hasn’t figured out a permanent solution.

Cordish of course hates it being closed on the weekends because it makes it more frustrating for customers and residents.

At minimum, they could put up more removable delineators around the center and turning lanes decreasing the required room for illegal car shenanigans.

[beautyfromashes]

Originally the bollards were supposed to be electronically controlled. This would have made it easier to open and close and might allow the street to be open more often. Who knows, you almost might even be able to catch some of the street donut people in the act by closing the road while they’re doing it essentially trapping them in the act.

[KCPowercat]

They were broke after winter 1. Vendor says they didn't plan on our weather

[DColeKC]

Originally the bollards were supposed to be electronically controlled. This would have made it easier to open and close and might allow the street to be open more often. Who knows, you almost might even be able to catch some of the street donut people in the act by closing the road while they’re doing it essentially trapping them in the act.

There's some cost associated too. The police need to come deal with traffic just to get the bollards installed. Once installed, you don't need them acting as crossing guards. Factor in that guests stream into the event over a 90 minute period and trickle out over 45 minutes on average.

Agree that the real answer to this is simply catching, charging and setting the example. It would be a extensive operation but they need to pick up on online chatter about when they're planned and literally have semi's parked and ready to block both sides of Grand. Arrest every single person, tow every single vehicle that was participating. It's just too risky to pursue them without a way to contain them. I literally was nearly crushed a few weeks back by a white BMW that came up heading west on Truman, went around cars in the left lane, cross Grand on a red-light (miracle he/she didn't wreck there) and hauled ass onto 71 running from a cop. I was standing on the sidewalk and had to step back to avoid getting hit.

[beautyfromashes]

They were broke after winter 1. Vendor says they didn't plan on our weather

Yeah, I remember. Who would have thought that there would be cold weather in Kansas City that would affect outside electronics? & Man, I'd love to have them operational though, get a donut car doing them in front of T-Mobile and then hit the switch to trap them in. It'd be glorious.

[AlkaliAxel]

Every day I tune to see who's winning the triangle war of KCP, BFA & DCole over the streets. It's a classic. Who's coming out on top in today's episode! Find out after the commercial break.

[beautyfromashes]

Every day I tune to see who's winning the triangle war of KCP, BFA & DCole over the streets. It's a classic. Who's coming out on top in today's episode! Find out after the commercial break.

We’re all losing.

[DColeKC]

Think we all are on a similar page, I’m just trying to provide some insight since I’m familiar with arena operations.

[Cratedigger]

Went to the Downtowners lunch today where Jon Stephens talked about Port KC’s involvement in developing a park covering I-670. One thing he touched on was the timeline. I've been thinking they would break ground in 2025 and potentially complete construction by Fall 2027. He was much more optimistic:

2023- Funding, Engineering, Scope
2024- Design, Public Engagement, Phasing Determination
2025- Construction
2026- Possible Grand Opening

May just be hyping people up... A good dream. Or maybe the World Cup will help push the project along quickly.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Went to the Downtowners lunch today where Jon Stephens talked about Port KC’s involvement in developing a park covering I-670. One thing he touched on was the timeline. I've been thinking they would break ground in 2025 and potentially complete construction by Fall 2027. He was much more optimistic:

2023- Funding, Engineering, Scope
2024- Design, Public Engagement, Phasing Determination
2025- Construction
2026- Possible Grand Opening

May just be hyping people up... A good dream. Or maybe the World Cup will help push the project along quickly.

If the World Cup can’t push that project across quickly, then quite literally nothing in the world can

[daGOAT]

We are guaranteed an 18-month construction period, so the groundbreaking is basically needed to be in 2024 to have a shot of a 2026 opening.

[TheUrbanRoo]

May just be hyping people up... A good dream. Or maybe the World Cup will help push the project along quickly.

There was an article a month ago about how they're using a mechanism to speed up the timeline. This is probably what he's referring to.

Stephens said the decision to have Port KC issue the RFQ could shave 10 months or more off the project timetable.

“The process allows for much faster coordination on design needs by the Missouri Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration and could reduce total time to completion by months,” he said in a statement.

He added in a separate interview, “I’m optimistic and hopeful we have the project or phases of the project open in 2026.”

[Cratedigger]

Yeah he keeps referring to phases. I bet a block or two is open by WC