Capping the Loop

[KCPowercat]

I feel like closing Walnut is a good choice as it would decrease car traffic going into P&L. Baltimore has several hotels built wand soon to be built with a block or two of the park. Closing off Baltimore could create some logistical issues for some. I also like the pavilion having more room for crowds.

Walnut is lightly used, this is true. But so is Baltimore Avenue at Truman. Most downtown traffic comes off the highway viaduct at 14th or 12th Streets, then cross-town. Crossroads traffic uses the Pennway/ SW Blvd exit or the B'Way exit, turning south.

Traffic between downtown and Crossroads on the N-S avenues is fairly light. The Cap will make it even lighter in my estimation. I favor closing both Baltimore and Walnut so that the park runs from Wyandotte to Grand.

Oak and other east avenues can handle the traffic (plus Main and Wyandotte).

I use Baltimore to get between / through the CBD because it is always absolutely empty. Closing it would be much less impactful there is zero doubt.

[smh]

I think close Baltimore and Walnut while also making Main transit-only through the park would be an interesting and fun move. It also might be too much for Broadway and Grand(Oak) to handle. But maybe not!

If you followed this idea you'd basically have a contiguous park the whole stretch and ever 6-10 minutes (or whatever) a streetcar would come through. No big deal. In cities all around the world trams run in shared spaces, why should KC be any different especially for a one-block stretch.

[DColeKC]

None of us here are traffic engineers. Traffic engineers have looked at this and agreed closing a street to create a super block wouldn’t be detrimental to traffic in general.

This is not accurate. Their own presentation boards say it will. 3rd and 4th bullet address this

I didn't say no impact. I said detrimental. There's causing harm and causing delays.

I appreciate your concern and think it's a valid point. I'm not suggesting they simply pick a road to close and move on. This park will require adjustments to other things around it.

I can tell you that on big event days, you're better off avoiding walnut all together. Walnut may also be closed at some points in conjunction with a big event at the arena. Main will never be closed due to the streetcar. If anyone asks my advice, I suggest heading down 13th to Main. I like the idea of making 13th a two way as well. That would really help and I can stop being nearly hit by wrong way drivers!

[KCPowercat]

and my fear is we won't make those additional changes we both agree need to be done. I've seen too many projects in KC to know how this goes.

Your advice of going to Main is exactly what we are trying to avoid. We need less cars on Main, we already have streetcar delays through this stretch, closing a street is only going to make it worse. I could care less if other streets get busier and people are in traffic, that's fine, we have to avoid impacting the streetcar more at all costs especially once the plaza is running.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I'm just gonna be the one to say it...I think yall are heavily overreacting to how much closing a road is going to slow down the streetcar. It's really not that deep.

[KCPowercat]

I'm just gonna be the one to say it...I think yall are heavily overreacting to how much closing a road is going to slow down the streetcar. It's really not that deep.

Traffic studies don't seem to indicate that but I hope you are right. We actually already have situations where it's being delayed through this stretch and we don't seem to be doing anything to make that better.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I'm just gonna be the one to say it...I think yall are heavily overreacting to how much closing a road is going to slow down the streetcar. It's really not that deep.

Anytime Grand is unexpectedly closed it happens. It’s not detrimental, but it adds 5-10 minutes at times, and really throws off spacing for the cars.

[DColeKC]

I'm just gonna be the one to say it...I think yall are heavily overreacting to how much closing a road is going to slow down the streetcar. It's really not that deep.

Anytime Grand is unexpectedly closed it happens. It’s not detrimental, but it adds 5-10 minutes at times, and really throws off spacing for the cars.

I wonder what other changes can be made to help this. Adjustments to street lights? Banning left turns at certain intersections?

[Chris Stritzel]

I'm just gonna be the one to say it...I think yall are heavily overreacting to how much closing a road is going to slow down the streetcar. It's really not that deep.

Anytime Grand is unexpectedly closed it happens. It’s not detrimental, but it adds 5-10 minutes at times, and really throws off spacing for the cars.

I wonder what other changes can be made to help this. Adjustments to street lights? Banning left turns at certain intersections?

I think that the stop lights need to be adjusted. They're not always in sync and that creates problems. The city/streetcar authority also needs to place some sort of thing on them where the lights turn green in front of the streetcar the moment it stops at a station. Clear the traffic in front of the streetcar. At the same time, lights immediately behind the streetcar change to red so you have no people sitting in an intersection waiting for the streetcar to go. I think doing that would resolve a few problems.

[beautyfromashes]

I wonder what other changes can be made to help this. Adjustments to street lights? Banning left turns at certain intersections?

Most of the traffic on Baltimore and Ealnit are just people trying to get to highway entrances. If you made better access in other areas you would think the traffic would be very minimal.

[DColeKC]

I know we are all pro-streetcar in here but I do think it's a balance. Considering that what, 98% of the people who are coming downtown every day to work or attend a event use personal vehicles, it deserves some priority. So screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient doesn't exactly seem like a equitable solution.

I curse the streetcar every time I have to drive down main towards midtown for the construction shit show and we've all had to deal with this for years upon years. It's worth it in the end, but we can't inconvenience the majority to satisfy the minority.

I can't imagine working in government trying to make all the various people happy.

[grovester]

I know we are all pro-streetcar in here but I do think it's a balance. Considering that what, 98% of the people who are coming downtown every day to work or attend a event use personal vehicles, it deserves some priority. So screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient doesn't exactly seem like a equitable solution.

I curse the streetcar every time I have to drive down main towards midtown for the construction shit show and we've all had to deal with this for years upon years. It's worth it in the end, but we can't inconvenience the majority to satisfy the minority.

I can't imagine working in government trying to make all the various people happy.

True colors.

[DColeKC]

I know we are all pro-streetcar in here but I do think it's a balance. Considering that what, 98% of the people who are coming downtown every day to work or attend a event use personal vehicles, it deserves some priority. So screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient doesn't exactly seem like a equitable solution.

I curse the streetcar every time I have to drive down main towards midtown for the construction shit show and we've all had to deal with this for years upon years. It's worth it in the end, but we can't inconvenience the majority to satisfy the minority.

I can't imagine working in government trying to make all the various people happy.

True colors.

Another wonderful contribution to this forum. Thank you.

[grovester]

I look forward to the announcement from Cordish that due to safety considerations, during events and programming Main will need to be closed with the streetcar swapped for busses and detoured.

Only on special occasions, we promise.

[DColeKC]

I look forward to the announcement from Cordish that due to safety considerations, during events and programming Main will need to be closed with the streetcar swapped for busses and detoured.

Only on special occasions, we promise.

Your posts never make any sense and don’t offer anything constructive to the conversation. They’re just really piss poor jabs that aren’t even funny or effective. My comments may not always be popular but at least I’m trying to bring something to the table.

I’m a supporter of the streetcar. I know some of you worship it and think it’s ok to massively inconvenience vehicular traffic at all costs to ensure the streetcar runs on time. I tend to think there are other ways to modify downtown infrastructure to satisfy all modes of transportation without severely negatively impacting transit in general.

[beautyfromashes]

I tend to think there are other ways to modify downtown infrastructure to satisfy all modes of transportation without severely negatively impacting transit in general.

…except on Grand.

[DColeKC]

I tend to think there are other ways to modify downtown infrastructure to satisfy all modes of transportation without severely negatively impacting transit in general.

…except on Grand.

I don’t think shutting down grand for one block severely negatively impacts transit in general. I know it causes a 5 minute delay for some bus riders but I’d say that’s not severe.

Turning 13th into a two-way would help when Grand is shut down.

Grand isn’t going to be closed anymore outside of arena events and for events physically taking place on that street.

[shinatoo]

Considering the hundreds of automotive lane miles and 10s of thousands of parking spots downtown, saying that a two-mile streetcar route is "screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient" is a strange hill to stand on. I agree that it's out of balance, but not the way you do.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

but we can't inconvenience the majority to satisfy the minority. .

The fuck we can’t, that’s what’s been going on in government for centuries. It’s 2 miles, 6 once the extension is complete. There’s probably 500 miles of street grid in downtown alone. Personal automobiles can be deprioritized on the single fucking fixed rail transit spine that exist.

[DColeKC]

Considering the hundreds of automotive lane miles and 10s of thousands of parking spots downtown, saying that a two-mile streetcar route is "screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient" is a strange hill to stand on. I agree that it's out of balance, but not the way you do.

That’s not what I’m saying at all.