P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

[KCPowercat]

steakhouse probably will be a relocated Ruth Chris.

[chrizow]

great!

maybe the Plaza can fill in the old Ruth's Chris space with a Gymboree.

[trailerkid]

It appears that the area separating the Prez, the retail block and the steakhouse is accessible by car. Specifically to the west of the steakhouse there is a traffic circle where it appears cars can load/unload/valet/whatever. I'm not sure how this will interact if cars are darting through this area between the hotel, retail/parking, and the steakhouse.

[GRID]

bump

[KCPowercat]

destruction of this block has begun.....they better get started, they have a few levels to dig out for the underground 200+ parking garage.

[scooterj]

destruction of this block has begun.....they better get started, they have a few levels to dig out for the underground 200+ parking garage.

Even with 2-1/2 buildings that must be removed still standing, they're already digging down in the spaces in-between.

[scooterj]

Here's a pic of the Soakies building right now from above. Tomorrow when I have my good camera back (it's out on loan) I'll take a morning shot from street level... it's eerie looking when the light comes through.

[/img]

[KCPowercat]

was that building all parking garage?

[scooterj]

was that building all parking garage?

95%. I call it the Soakies building simply because I have no idea what the garage portion was named.

[KCPowercat]

yeah I called it that too, never really thought about what the rest of the building was for. Doesn't pain me to lose an above ground garage like that for an underground lot. So long soakies.

[moderne]

Wonder who got all that great Art Deco tera cotta ornament?

[FangKC]

I don't want Virgin instead of Borders. I'd take both, but book browsing at Borders is far more interesting than CD browsing at a megastore. .

Have you ever been inside a Virgin Megastore? They are fantastic. They don't just sell music. They sell books, magazines, software, games, videos, DVDs, and some have a movie theater attached to them. It's like being in a trendy discoteque with music playing and video monitors running videos with the music. Some of them have in-house DJs and coffee bars. They also draw artists and bands for in-house record releases and regular performances. Not only that, but you can buy music from anywhere in the world: Brazil, Thailand, Japan, Africa, Russia, China, Vietnam, Australia, Germany, France, Portugal, the Mideast, India, etc. The one in Times Square is busy at 2 am. It's quite a score to land one in your city. It's much like getting a IKEA store, House of Blues, or Hard Rock Cafe.

I'd be happy with a Tower Records as well. One thing about these two chains is that you can find almost anything you want, or they will order it for you. They also stock a lot of smaller, independent labels and artists that can't get distributed into bigger chain stores. I used to spend hours in the Tower Records at 4th and Broadway in NYC.

The nice thing about Tower and Virgin is that they book artists at one time to tour all their stores. So if Ben Folds, Tori Amos, Rufus Wainwright, or Kylie Minogue release a new album, they get booked in all the Tower or Virgin stores around the country and go there. These stores draw in artists that would never come to a music store in Kansas City for a record release.

how about a bookstore like Tattered Cover in Denver?

I'm not sure what Tattered Cover is, but I think we need a large bookstore and smaller retailers. They lend themselves. Sometimes I'm in a Borders mood and sometimes I'm in an indie mood. There is a radical bookstore and community meeting place opening in the East Crossroads, but the loop could use a small, indie, bookstore-- perhaps with some sort of specialty like mysteries, science, social issues, etc.

I'd love to have a big used bookstore like The Strand in Greenwich Village somewhere downtown to complement any big chain store. That would be a good purpose for a building like the AT&T Longlines Building if it ever becomes vacant. It would be well-suited for a humongous bookstore because it has so many floors with no windows.

http://www.strandbooks.com/home/

Bloomsday Books is moving from Brookside to one of the buildings on the 1500 block of Walnut near Truman Rd.

[FangKC]

Wonder who got all that great Art Deco tera cotta ornament?

I don't think there were any attempts to salvage any of it.

[KCTigerFan]

Fang, I agree completely on the Virgin Megastore. It would be an instant hangout for tons of people. The thing that has always struck me about the Megastores in other cities is the diversity of people who spend time there. Classical fans, goth, trash rock, pop et cetera all spend a lot of time browsing, sipping coffee and reading.

I also love the idea of a great independent bookseller, but would love to see it go in further south in the Crossroads. There is a great building at 19th Terrace and Wyandotte across from Mildred's and Black Bamboo. It's original brick is covered in aweful fake stone and it is used as some sort of crap warehouse. It would make a great two story bookstore and help add even more life along a two block stretch that already has a lot of vibrancy with YJ's et cetera.

[FangKC]

Hangout is a good way to describe a Virgin Megastore. They are fun places to go--especially after a movie, play, or dinner. Because of their variety of music, they also tend to draw in older people and not just teenagers. Virgin stores are great places to people-watch.

I'm sure the Virgin stores with coffee shops and movie theaters do quite well with the people leaving a movie because they often have to exit through the store (the one in Times Square is setup like this). Having a movie theater as a adjunct to the Virgin store is quite brilliant, because it gives moviegoers a place to hang out before and after a movie.

Isn't that a trianguler-shaped building on W. 19th Terrace? Yes, that would be a great area for one. It's too bad there isn't a building on W. 18th St. that would be suitable for one. The Main St. level at the old TWA headquarters might be a good place for one as well.

The reason I suggested a place inside the loop is because used bookstores make great places for downtown workers to go on their lunch hour. When I lived in Phoenix, there was one about five blocks from my office building where I'd go at least a couple times a month on my lunch hour. Since the books are usually very inexpensive to buy in used stores, people tend to go there more often and buy regularly, so they get a lot of traffic. This is especially a draw for people who read one or two books a week. Used stores in downtown areas that do well are those with big sections of certain genres like dramatic fiction novels, science fiction, murder mysteries, crime novels, romances, and biographies.

When I lived in New York, I had a friend who met all his girlfriends on Astor Place. In that area, there was a Starbucks, a wine store, a Barnes & Noble, and a Tower Records. If those didn't pan out, the Strand Used Bookstore and Virgin Megastore were just a few blocks up the street. All were good places for him to meet women.

[KCMax]

Did anyone see Wall Street Week with Fortune on PBS this weekend? They did a piece on the new thing in shopping - lifestyle malls. Developed neighborhoods where apartment lofts and shops are intermingled around a public square in an outdoor mall atmosphere. Seemed kinda cool actually. Not as cool as an organically created shopping district, but cooler than a traditional mall that's for sure. They eliminated the sprawling surface parking lots, and gave people lots of places to just sit and hang out. There is also a skating rink as a signature landmark.

But they say that in the future it won't be enough to just sell things, that stores will have to be destinations. People like places to hang out, and when they hang out they buy things.

[KCTigerFan]

KCMax, yes that was a great piece. It is amazing that it retailers are just now "discovering" that it is better to create a mixed use, walkable enviroment that is pedestrian friendly! I work with several national retailers and it is interesting to hear them talk about lifestyle centers. They still worry that it is a fad and that we will go back to malls. They worry about weather, about parking... Yet, their own sales indicate that their stores in mixed use developments have higher overall sales.

Fang, no one block further north, but that building would be great too. I am looking at it right now out of my office window. They gutted it last fall and put a new roof on and AC unit, now it is empty with a for sale sign.

I agree that downtown is a great spot for a great independent bookseller because of the office crowd. Hopefully, in the next 3-5 years it will be much more friendly to walk the 6-10 blocks to the Crossroads from downtown. I walk from my office at 19th and Wyandotte downtown for lunch regularly and to check out the P&L District construction. It is actually a VERY easy walk, but because it is not a friendly walk most people act like you are walking across Antartica when you tell them you are walking from 19th street to 12th. In other cities I have lived in walking from the Crossroads to the River Market would be considered a nice stroll.

[zonk]

Developed neighborhoods where apartment lofts and shops are intermingled around a public square in an outdoor mall atmosphere.

Are you describing Zona Rosa?

[Thrillcekr]

Developed neighborhoods where apartment lofts and shops are intermingled around a public square in an outdoor mall atmosphere.

Are you describing Zona Rosa?

Sounds like it to me. They already have those there. Loft apartments above the store.

[zonk]

and possible new multi-family residential to the west.