KCRag Forum

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:57 am

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:41 am*Marriott gets paid a license fee by hotel owners who may or may not make an operating profit* the more luxurious or historic properties are often not the ones with high NOI

Does Marriott not own the Muehlebach hotel building?

No

They used to correct? I recall staying in the Old Muehlebach around 2003. The rooms had been updated and such and it was a nice enough hotel. But it had the skywalk connecting it to the Marriot as you could use amenities over there, etc. Did they sell it do the developer who was wanting to turn it into apartments?

I believe the banquet, ballrooms, and other such facilities are still open and used in the Muehlebach. I could be wrong though.

The tower on the corner of 12th and Wyandotte was imploded and replaced with a new tower of hotel rooms in the mid 90s, which is where you would have stayed.

I do believe the older Muehlebach does have some renovated ballrooms etc that are connected to the new tower but most of the tower has been vacant for decades. I'm not sure who owns it though or why it's taking so long to restore the original tower into residential or hotel.

I know they still use the old lobby, new lobby and a couple of the banquet rooms for events like the BOTAR.

As far as I know though, even during those events, all of the people that stay the night are put in the new connected part of the building on Wyandotte not any of the old rooms on Baltimore.

The owners own the new building and the floors they use in the back that they use only. Marriott is just the brand no ownership

Can Marriott encourage the current owners (whatever entity that might be) to renovate and reopen the historic section? Are hotel flags in charge of renovating their rooms and facilities or is that down to the owner? To a layman, I have to tell you, the hotel industry is absolutely inscrutable. If it's on the developers, how can a flag have any sort of quality control over the product?

I just want this to be a busy hotel lobby again please, whatever it takes

Maybe they need to call Ghostbusters first. Get rid of that dropped ceiling!

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:26 pm Can Marriott encourage the current owners (whatever entity that might be) to renovate and reopen the historic section? Are hotel flags in charge of renovating their rooms and facilities or is that down to the owner? To a layman, I have to tell you, the hotel industry is absolutely inscrutable. If it's on the developers, how can a flag have any sort of quality control over the product?

I'm only kinda into that industry so can't really tell you who leads the charge, I'f bet it depends on each situation. Sometimes an owner wants to renovated a building and looks for a chain to fill it others is the hotel chain looking for an opportunity their market teams wants something opened in a location.

This specific situation the building ownership is very complex and was told that's why the residential element was scratched.

Of course it was many decades, a short time after closing, ago but as I remember it to put the old hotel into usable condition, without room size modifications, was at a prohibitive cost. Even modernizing to hotel rooms to then current standards would have complicated the remodel and again a prohibitive cost. The rooms were on the small size which also applied to the bathrooms. The acceptable rate of return on investment just wasn't there. That was why there was consideration of converting the hotel into residences, which would have been a total interior teardown and likely limited modifications to the exterior.

I can’t imagine it was much different when the President was renovated. In fact I understand the President was in even worse condition since it was totally abandoned

Apples and oranges. Apples and oranges.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:02 pm Apples and oranges. Apples and oranges.

Please elaborate

Two different buildings with their own unique problems.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:42 pm Two different buildings with their own unique problems.

Not sure what your point is

Just look at your post comparing two hotels.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:04 pm

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:26 pm Can Marriott encourage the current owners (whatever entity that might be) to renovate and reopen the historic section? Are hotel flags in charge of renovating their rooms and facilities or is that down to the owner? To a layman, I have to tell you, the hotel industry is absolutely inscrutable. If it's on the developers, how can a flag have any sort of quality control over the product?

I'm only kinda into that industry so can't really tell you who leads the charge, I'f bet it depends on each situation. Sometimes an owner wants to renovated a building and looks for a chain to fill it others is the hotel chain looking for an opportunity their market teams wants something opened in a location.

This specific situation the building ownership is very complex and was told that's why the residential element was scratched.

Owner owns hotel. Brand licenses brand and runs the website and loyalty program. Operator operates the hotel and can be the owner, brand, or a third party. In most cases, its the owner or an operator the owner hires. 5 Star hotels are almost entirely brand operated.

Usually a developer/owner pitches to brands. Of course, the brands have people whose job is to find new hotels to add to their networks.

The brand can not force a hotel to expand. If the hotel declines in quality though, they can put the hotel on a Property Improvement Plan to rectify the situation. If the owner doesnt bring the property back up to standard, they loose the license(and maybe also have fines per the contract).

Yeah the above is correct (although with lots of edge cases). A lot of times the owner is just a REIT that pays an operator who finds a flag.

Other times times a flag will invest equity into the hotel.

You can lose your flag or reflag.

It's super complicated. We have all downtown.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:55 am Just look at your post comparing two hotels.

Ok. The President was in worse shape and abandoned. The Muehlebach is in better condition and the bottom floor is used. You say that is apples to oranges, which, sure, could be true, but what point are you making by saying they're different. Are you saying the Muehlebach can't be restored because it's not on the brink of demolition, or what?

It can be restored as a hotel or reconfigured as housing. Many old buildings downtown have been. Many were complicated situations. It's just a matter of will and financing. Right now the financing part of it might be harder to pencil out than say 6-8 years ago.

Did anyone on this forum ever see blueprints showing how they planned to convert the hotel rooms into apartments?