Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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normalthings
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

kcjak wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:59 am I don't mind keeping the same or nearly the same number of parking spaces - those are used by hotels, Municipal, Music Hall, Bartle and probably some others I can't think of. By now most people know about parking further away and taking the streetcar, but during busy weekends with the Big 12 tourney, Auto Show at Bartle, maybe something going on at Municipal or Kaufman Center then it's fine IMO. Let's figure out how to make some better revenue from it and implement a better solution at street level.
We need a large dedicated parking structure for the Convention Center and neighboring hotels. Its about meeting the requirements of event planners not a "live downtown instead" thing.
Last edited by normalthings on Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by Major KC Fan »

Anything is better than the deteriorating mess we have now. I’ve used that garage a lot over the years for hotel, convention center and Municipal Auditorium events so I see the value in its location besides the contract requirements for it. It will never check all the boxes that our forum would come up with but it does attempt to provide lots of uses for the community, including dog owners (lots in the loop community), a playground that residents and event-goers can utilize and event spaces to better coordinate organized use of the park. Trees that will eventually provide a shaded respite are a very important factor in beating the downtown heat of a KC summer and allow realistic use of the park.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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1. I believe this site was selected for mixed-income housing as it sits near many bus routes. I tend to think a hotel tower would make more sense but despite my wishes, we probably aren't going to get one of those for the next while.

2. This block is in the convention district. Why are people surprised then that it caters to the surrounding uses?

There are a lot of complaints but I'm not hearing many solutions or ways to make it better.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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KCPowercat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:06 pmUnimpressive
I agree. Sure it's better than what we have currently, but why do we have to shoot so low still.

How about we ATLEAST put up like a rose garden or statues or something other than grass and some windy trails that go for 50 feet.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:48 am
GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:34 am
KCPowercat wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:39 pm

It basically looks like it did the day it opened. That's unimpressive. When the"future" actually happens it would be better but still an odd place to put housing.
I agree. This new plan is not impressive at all. I mean come on. They have to do better than than this for such a prime space. And an apartment building looks terrible there. There are 5000 other places downtown to build a mixed income building.

I don't get this at all. Not for that kind of money.

And I'm guessing one of KC's signature fountains goes away?
The fountain is going away either way. BAP is getting bulldozed, it's a fact at this point. The only question is if we want to rebuild or make it a grass lot or surface lot. Those are the 2 alternatives presented to the council. City must maintain control of BAP until Convention Center debt is repaid.

Bulldozing alone is $30-40 million IIRC.
Shit. May as well just throw an above ground structure there and really save some money.

I really don't understand how so many in KC are so easily willing to settle for shit public infrastructure. That could be a really cool space. This plan sucks.

And an apartment building there looks so forced. Why is it needed? Put the apartment building on the surface parking lot across Broadway or on any one of the other million vacant lots in the downtown area.

And taking out and not putting in a new fountain is just stupid. Why would the core plaza of KC's convention center hotel district not have fountain in the "city of fountains".

Sure the garage needs to be replaced, but why does the actual plaza have to be replaced with such a bare bones, barely thought out space? Does everything KCMO does have to be dollar general quality?
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by GRID »

You know between this and the Broadway bridge mess, I'm starting to think that decking 670 may be a bad idea. If a project can't be properly designed, funded and implemented, it may just make things worse.

It cost money to do things right. Throwing some cheap decks over the 670 freeway may be a bad idea. If done right, it could be amazing, but I honestly don't see that happening.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:04 pm Why would the core plaza of KC's convention center hotel district not have fountain in the "city of fountains".
This may be an unpopular opinion but I always though the "City of Fountains" name was bullshit. We only have like 2 or 3 good ones. So many other cities have alot of fountains too when I've traveled.

We don't even have one large grandiose one like Buckingham Fountain in Chicago. If you don't have one like that then you're not the city of fountains. And don't come at me with the JC Nichols fountain.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:14 pm You know between this and the Broadway bridge mess, I'm starting to thing that decking 670 may be a terrible idea. If a project can't be properly designed, funded and implemented, it may just make things worse.

It cost money to do things right. Throwing some cheap decks over the 670 freeway may be a bad idea.
Okay now don't go THAT deep down the rabbit hole.

That one will have alot of control from private interests too so won't screw it up like Barney Allis.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:15 pm
GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:14 pm You know between this and the Broadway bridge mess, I'm starting to thing that decking 670 may be a terrible idea. If a project can't be properly designed, funded and implemented, it may just make things worse.

It cost money to do things right. Throwing some cheap decks over the 670 freeway may be a bad idea.
Okay now don't go THAT deep down the rabbit hole.

That one will have alot of control from private interests too so won't screw it up like Barney Allis.
Why? It's very possible. Modot is broke and is stuck in the 1950's as far as design style, KCMO has no idea how to build proper modern infrastructure and especially has no idea how to maintain infrastructure. Does KCMO even have a street sweeper? Grand Ave even with the bike lanes is about as well maintained as an industrial street, not a primary street in a large city downtown. At some point, you just have to admit this as fact.

Even some of the plans for the 670 I have seen are somewhat questionable. In order to make that work, it needs to be a pretty large project to step down the elevation and make it inviting to people to use. If you just cover the gaps with decks of concrete, grass and a few trees, it will not to much other than reduce noise.

Sorry, this is just frustrating. And I agree, I'm not so sure KC is the city of fountains, but it has had plenty of chances to enhance that image with Sprint Center etc. I would say the city is definitely going backwards on that lately. Union Station was how you continue to build that image. The Pershing fountain is awesome, but Downtown doesn't really have a high quality fountain outside of Barney Allis Plaza, so I would think installing a new one at the new plaza would be a priority. A new one that actually interacts with the park/plaza much better.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by GRID »

It would be nice if Downtown KC had a focal point downtown fountain like you have in Cincy, Indy etc. I mean it is the city fountains and "Downtown" KC does not have a fountain like Cincy:
Image

All I'm saying is that when the city is spending a ton of money on a project like this, then it should be a chance to really improve the area, not just make it about the same or worse.

Crown Center and Plaza have nice fountains, Downtown should have one too. Especially in the core of the convention district.

I know the parking structure creates challenges, but overcome them!

Even something like this would be really nice. This is in a smaller town and smaller footprint, so something like this on Barney Allis Plaza could be really neat and inviting to downtown residents and tourists.
Image
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:42 pm Even something like this would be really nice. This is in a smaller town and smaller footprint, so something like this on Barney Allis Plaza could be really neat and inviting to downtown residents and tourists.
Image
I really like this! Where is that?
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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Rock Hill SC. (suburb of charlotte) https://fountainparkrockhill.com/
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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This is primarily an event space and parking for the convention district. A rose garden does not make sense. Mega fountain does not make sense. There is a linear water feature/fountain that hasn’t even been designed yet but is already being roasted.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm This is primarily an event space and parking for the convention district. A rose garden does not make sense. Mega fountain does not make sense. There is a linear water feature/fountain that hasn’t even been designed yet but is already being roasted.
So, we have to provide parking for the convention center. Who says it has to be in this location? Put it on the other side of Broadway as part of a new development. This seems so forced and I can almost guarantee this location "has to be!" where the garage is because old lady socialites want to save 50 steps to the Music Hall.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:04 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm This is primarily an event space and parking for the convention district. A rose garden does not make sense. Mega fountain does not make sense. There is a linear water feature/fountain that hasn’t even been designed yet but is already being roasted.
So, we have to provide parking for the convention center. Who says it has to be in this location? Put it on the other side of Broadway as part of a new development. This seems so forced and I can almost guarantee this location "has to be!" where the garage is because old lady socialites want to save 50 steps to the Music Hall.
Bond indenture say so
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:08 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:04 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm This is primarily an event space and parking for the convention district. A rose garden does not make sense. Mega fountain does not make sense. There is a linear water feature/fountain that hasn’t even been designed yet but is already being roasted.
So, we have to provide parking for the convention center. Who says it has to be in this location? Put it on the other side of Broadway as part of a new development. This seems so forced and I can almost guarantee this location "has to be!" where the garage is because old lady socialites want to save 50 steps to the Music Hall.
Bond indenture say so
I don't believe this is the case because I watched the council session about a year ago where they talked about moving the garage. They're required to provide a certain number of spaces in close proximity. I don't believe it has to be at BAP only.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:14 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:08 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:04 pm
So, we have to provide parking for the convention center. Who says it has to be in this location? Put it on the other side of Broadway as part of a new development. This seems so forced and I can almost guarantee this location "has to be!" where the garage is because old lady socialites want to save 50 steps to the Music Hall.
Bond indenture say so
I don't believe this is the case because I watched the council session about a year ago where they talked about moving the garage. They're required to provide a certain number of spaces in close proximity. I don't believe it has to be at BAP only.
City Finance said so this week
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm This is primarily an event space and parking for the convention district. A rose garden does not make sense. Mega fountain does not make sense. There is a linear water feature/fountain that hasn’t even been designed yet but is already being roasted.
It is true the city sells this as event space as part of battle. It's also true it's never used for that for conventions. The design shown isn't even a good design for event space

So there is a fountain as part of the plan?
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

I'll be honest I just couldn't give a rats ass about this project. $100 mil to grow some grass on a lawn is just laughable. It literally does nothing. Again, so many better things we can do with that money that are needs. Just go ahead and build the south loop already.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

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KCPowercat wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:27 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm This is primarily an event space and parking for the convention district. A rose garden does not make sense. Mega fountain does not make sense. There is a linear water feature/fountain that hasn’t even been designed yet but is already being roasted.
It is true the city sells this as event space as part of battle. It's also true it's never used for that for conventions. The design shown isn't even a good design for event space

So there is a fountain as part of the plan?
map and renderings that I posted have an "immersive fountain" infront of municipal
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