Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by GRID »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:43 pm I'll be honest I just couldn't give a rats ass about this project. $100 mil to grow some grass on a lawn is just laughable. It literally does nothing. Again, so many better things we can do with that money that are needs. Just go ahead and build the south loop already.
You seem to only care about a few projects that you care about.

A city only functions if all types of projects come together. Barney Allis Plaza needs to be rebuilt, the garage under it is crumbling and if it's not dealt with, it will just be closed and the entire block will just deteriorate and look like shit for who knows how many years. Is that really what you want in what is likely one of the more visible places for tourists in the city?

I'm just saying do it right. Do something that brings the area to life and makes it an area people want to walk through or relax in.

Putting everything aside or not doing other projects right or not doing them at all just because 670 might be decked or because the north loop might be reconfigured makes no sense. Especially since I honest to god think that when the 670 deck is finally announced with some real plans and funding sources, it will be extremely underwhelming after all the years of everybody drooling about what it could be.

The garage needs to be replaced and downtown KC desperately needs some decent parks.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by FangKC »

GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:08 pm ...Barney Allis Plaza needs to be rebuilt, the garage under it is crumbling and if it's not dealt with, it will just be closed and the entire block will just deteriorate and look like shit for who knows how many years. Is that really what you want in what is likely one of the more visible places for tourists in the city?
This is the reason something needs to be done.

If the block deteriorates and looks bad, you then create a situation where Marriott pulls out of two hotel structures adjacent to BAP, as well as Crowne Plaza Hotel -- just like Holiday Inn left Aladdin Hotel. The proposed office development on the vacant lot west of Hotel Kansas City doesn't happen. Yeah, maybe something would be done with those buildings, but it will probably take years for a plan to be executed. Maybe another hotel chain would take over the buildings, but would it be a downgrade? Rodeway Inn?

No hotel or office property wants a view of a roped-off park sitting awaiting demolition for years. Without the parking there, the Aladdin doesn't reopen.

One must also keep in mind that the deck park over 670--once built--will also require maintenance and eventually rebuilding at some point. The bridges over 670 have to be replaced periodically, so the park decks will as well. Building that deck park requires a future commitment by various parties to rebuild it occasionally--adding to the infrastructure liabilities the City carries.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

Someone may know better, but the presenter this week mentioned that the surrounding streets are held up by the garage structure itself. A new retaining structure will have to be constructed under a demo or a rebuild.
KCKev
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1568
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Tucson Arizona
Contact:

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCKev »

FangKC wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:41 pm This post is mostly for KCKev.

Barney Allis Plaza in 1956.

Image

https://dl.mospace.umsystem.edu/umkc/is ... mkc%3A8060
Let's revisit this. The removal of the fountain was because of water leaking and destroying the parking?
Fountain removed and almost exactly what is now propose was built in its place.
How about just put the fountain back in
but done correctly and sure up the parking garage.
Hasn't it recently been tennis and basketball courts?
Please fill me in if I've missed something. Was wonderful as a 10 year old in the 1970s. Played there every day.
If you're not on the EDGE, you're taking up TOO MUCH ROOM!
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

GRID wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:08 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:43 pm I'll be honest I just couldn't give a rats ass about this project. $100 mil to grow some grass on a lawn is just laughable. It literally does nothing. Again, so many better things we can do with that money that are needs. Just go ahead and build the south loop already.
You seem to only care about a few projects that you care about.

A city only functions if all types of projects come together. Barney Allis Plaza needs to be rebuilt, the garage under it is crumbling and if it's not dealt with, it will just be closed and the entire block will just deteriorate and look like shit for who knows how many years. Is that really what you want in what is likely one of the more visible places for tourists in the city?

I'm just saying do it right. Do something that brings the area to life and makes it an area people want to walk through or relax in.

Putting everything aside or not doing other projects right or not doing them at all just because 670 might be decked or because the north loop might be reconfigured makes no sense. Especially since I honest to god think that when the 670 deck is finally announced with some real plans and funding sources, it will be extremely underwhelming after all the years of everybody drooling about what it could be.

The garage needs to be replaced and downtown KC desperately needs some decent parks.
No I care about development. This isn’t development, connectivity, or anything. It’s just spending $100 mil on grass that nobody cares about. Just let them build in this plot instead of just throwing money at it forever.

Just develop one that spot instead of wasting money. I don’t get why that’s so wrong. It doesn’t even activate a corridor like the South loop cap would.
User avatar
wahoowa
Ambassador
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: CBD

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by wahoowa »

"I care about development. This isn't development. It's just spending money on something nobody cares about." is an all-time kc rag post. just outstanding. my guy/gal/person is a raw content generation machine. i love this website.

back on topic. could we add a zipline course to the proposed park? i'll listen off the air.
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

wahoowa wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:07 pm "I care about development. This isn't development. It's just spending money on something nobody cares about." is an all-time kc rag post. just outstanding. my guy/gal/person is a raw content generation machine. i love this website.

back on topic. could we add a zipline course to the proposed park? i'll listen off the air.
Weren't you the same guy who whined 6 months ago that the Big 12 was in total collapse and KC was doomed because tExAs was going to the SEC looool
User avatar
wahoowa
Ambassador
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: CBD

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by wahoowa »

as if! i care about development. taking a crumbling sports conference and rebuilding it in place with objectively less valuable pieces isn't development, connectivity, or anything. it's just spending money on something nobody cares about.

just let kansas and missouri play each other every other year inside the i-670 trench instead of throwing money at conferences forever. i don't get why that's so wrong. the way kansas defends, i doubt it would even meaningfully slow traffic.
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

wahoowa wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:32 pm the way kansas defends, i doubt it would even meaningfully slow traffic.
Im wheezing
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

wahoowa wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:32 pm as if! i care about development. taking a crumbling sports conference and rebuilding it in place with objectively less valuable pieces isn't development, connectivity, or anything. it's just spending money on something nobody cares about.

just let kansas and missouri play each other every other year inside the i-670 trench instead of throwing money at conferences forever. i don't get why that's so wrong. the way kansas defends, i doubt it would even meaningfully slow traffic.
How are people still making the argument that the Big 12 is crumbling after the last 6 months what
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by FangKC »

Proposal to replace city garage in Miami.

Image
...
The MPA will consider a 99-year land lease and development agreement for the replacement of the 7-story, 49-year old 1,439-space garage.

Related and ROVR propose a 1.88-million-square-foot, 3-towered mixed-use project rising between 39 and 48 stories and include 1,200 residential units, 1,357 parking spaces, 8,214 square feet of ground floor retail, 33,865 square feet of public service space and 30,000 square feet of amenities. The developer claimed 20% of the residential units would be reserved as affordable housing for seniors making up to 50% of area median income, and another 15% of units would be dedicated to workforce housing for people making up to 140% of area median income. Units would measure between 360 and 1,310 square feet, comprised of 138 studios, 636 one-bedrooms, 354 two-bedrooms and 72 three-bedrooms, with an average unit scope of 722 square feet. The public space could serve as a fire station along with an urgent care clinic and a non-profit art center. Related and ROVR hope to close on the lease in 2023, and construction would occur over 60 months. The MPA would maintain ownership of the parking component, and in the assumption this proposal proceeds, the developers would need to find alternative parking options for nearby residential towers which up until now were using the College Station Garage.
...
https://www.instagram.com/p/CZiWgBUhfg6 ... _copy_link

https://www.thenextmiami.com/related-ro ... ng-garage/
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

KC considers $177M in Barney Allis Plaza projects, including new 10-story apartment complex

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... arage.html
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by Chris Stritzel »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:41 pm KC considers $177M in Barney Allis Plaza projects, including new 10-story apartment complex

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... arage.html
"The newly recommended apartment proposal involves a 10-story, 226-unit building with 5,000 square feet of ground-floor retail, a gallery and plaza support areas. Among the units, 80% would be market rate and 20% would be set aside as affordable.

The plaza component would include about 47,350 square feet of oval lawn, event space, dog park and play area; a double-sided perimeter streetscape; and a sloping of the plaza to grade for better accessibility.

A financing plan included in the development team's proposal would see the plaza and garage improvements funded through public bonds. Vasquez said that debt could be backed by a mix of sources, including gaming revenue coming available in 2031, payments in lieu of taxes made on the apartment site under future incentive terms, revenue from the new garage and maintenance savings on the current garage.

The mixed-use apartment complex would be financed by a combination of private equity, debt and about $8 million in gap financing. Excess bond revenue could help cover costs associated with the affordable housing units.

Determining how exactly to finance the projects will be the city's first step if officials agree to begin a 180-day negotiation period with the recommended team. The city hopes to complete Barney Allis Plaza's redevelopment by 2026, when the FIFA World Cup comes to town.

A tentative project schedule could see the remade plaza spaces and garage start planning and design work in the fourth quarter, leading to a construction start in the first quarter and completion in early 2025."


Copaken Brooks, CBC Real Estate Group and Brinshore Development will handle the apartment development (valued at $64.9 Million) and HOK and McGownGordon will handle the reconstruction of the parking garage and plaza (called at $112.4 Million).

While I wished the new building were taller, 226-units isn't bad and definitely will help activate this area more.
Image
Image
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by GRID »

That looks better than I thought it would.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by earthling »

It's a start but as discussed in past would like to see a garden of fountains throughout the park. Develop a global competition for fountain designs with about 6-10 chosen for BAP. Could even rotate fountains every few years with other global cities, keeping it fresh. I bet this would draw DT area residents as well as a place to chill, the calming sound would be a draw for outdoor lunch as well. Hotel/convention visitors would likely hang out longer as well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=unusual ... US957US957
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by AlkaliAxel »

When do they plan to start construction on the apartment phase though?
Last edited by AlkaliAxel on Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:14 pm It's a start but as discussed in past would like to see a garden of fountains throughout the park. Develop a global competition for fountain designs with about 6-10 chosen for BAP. Could even rotate fountains every few years with other global cities, keeping it fresh. I bet this would draw DT area residents as well as a place to chill, the calming sound would be a draw for outdoor lunch as well. Hotel/convention visitors would likely hang out longer as well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=unusual ... US957US957
I think this is specifically supposed to be an outdoor event space for Convention Center
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by earthling »

Event spaces can still have fountains as museums are also often event spaces.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33839
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

Blocking off Bartle is a great idea.
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by WoodDraw »

KCPowercat wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:37 pm Blocking off Bartle is a great idea.
Blocking that blank wall is my favorite part
Post Reply