TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:59 pm
Ok. The President was in worse shape and abandoned. The Muehlebach is in better condition and the bottom floor is used. You say that is apples to oranges, which, sure, could be true, but what point are you making by saying they're different. Are you saying the Muehlebach can't be restored because it's not on the brink of demolition, or what?
Anyway as I stated each older building presents it own unique set of problems and challenges to overcome in its restoration. As I understand it the hotel room floors have been gutted so at least that part has been done. Given other properties have been rehabbed and not the Muehlebach there must be something different about it. There were articles in the past about the hotel but I do not have a recollection about the problems presented. My memory seems to recollect there was something about windows and they affect room sizes. And trying to keep the outside true to its historical look. There were various articles about what the owners wanted to do with the structure for a few years before and after closing. The Business Journal might have a few articles at the time about the hotel.
KC will close deteriorating Barney Allis Plaza garage for demolition
Kansas City will permanently close Barney Allis Plaza's crumbling parking garage in a little over a month so officials can prepare to demolish it.
The 970-space underground garage is set to be shuttered April 15, about four years after "a magnitude of code violations" led the city to close the lowest of its three levels.
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Officials in 2022 shared a target to finish Barney Allis Plaza's new garage and revamp ahead of the 2026 FIFA World Cup. That timeline that would require construction to start later this year.
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I'm excited to see this demolition occur. Just hope that we can get a renewed park on top and the residential building constructed as well. At the very least, rebuild there park there (just make it level like we've seen before). But we need more housing though.
With the Lux Tower dead, this presents a unique opportunity to get this residential building, and the one over at 12th and Broadway, up. Start reimagining the area around the Convention Center a little bit so it's not such a dud.
$116,500,000
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The project includes two components: an underground garage and a plaza/open space at the surface. The garage will serve motorists and the surface level improvements will serve pedestrians and transit users. The surface level improvements will also include a playground and other green space that will serve residents and visitors.
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The garage will provide 583 parking spaces. The proposal includes a 8,800 SF pavilion that includes public restrooms and a hub for KCATA.
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Design is currently underway. Preconstruction will occur in 2024 Construction will occur in 2024 and 2025, provided that funds are available.
$116,500,000
...
The project includes two components: an underground garage and a plaza/open space at the surface. The garage will serve motorists and the surface level improvements will serve pedestrians and transit users. The surface level improvements will also include a playground and other green space that will serve residents and visitors.
...
The garage will provide 583 parking spaces. The proposal includes a 8,800 SF pavilion that includes public restrooms and a hub for KCATA.
...
Design is currently underway. Preconstruction will occur in 2024 Construction will occur in 2024 and 2025, provided that funds are available.
Why aren't we using the tens of millions of dollars in the city's housing trust fund to build residential components on projects like this?
The plan is to have 20 percent of the apartments set aside as affordable.
From an earlier Business Journal article:
The mixed-use apartment complex would be financed by a combination of private equity, debt and about $8 million in gap financing. Excess bond revenue could help cover costs associated with the affordable housing units.
I still think they should greendeck the convention center and just make this a apartment complex over the entire BAP site. One inch of grass, gravel or planters isn't going to hurt the structural integrity of that building.
I wish BAP could be more closely integrated with the rest of the convention center. Moscone Center in SF revolves around the lovely Yerba Buena Gardens, which are built over the great underground exhibition hall. It's all a very elegant urban convention center, compared to the horrific landscrapers most cities get.
Does anyone know who designed Barney Allis? Or Ilus Davis? Or the small plaza to the south of the Federal Building? I'm asking because of the similarities in design. I feel like all three were designed to make sense to people 20 stories up and not to be pleasant to people on the ground.
missingkc wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:46 pm
Does anyone know who designed Barney Allis? Or Ilus Davis? Or the small plaza to the south of the Federal Building? I'm asking because of the similarities in design. I feel like all three were designed to make sense to people 20 stories up and not to be pleasant to people on the ground.
The biggest lesson learned with these spaces is they need to be actively managed and programmed. The city should absolutely not be responsible given their track record of being overextended on everything. If BAP or Ilus Davis had a well-funded conservancy they would be fine public spaces. This is the way.
For Barney Allis, I'd be willing to organize Food Truck Fridays and movie nights on the plaza in the summer months. I just don't know how to go about that. The new BAP would be ideal for this since I wouldn't have to be scared of the current one collapsing.
For Ilus Davis, the issue is that it's disconnected from most businesses and residents. It's a sad thing to see. But maybe having art fairs, speciality pop up markets (like a Christmas market) and some other things would help make it better.
missingkc wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:46 pm
Does anyone know who designed Barney Allis? Or Ilus Davis? Or the small plaza to the south of the Federal Building? I'm asking because of the similarities in design. I feel like all three were designed to make sense to people 20 stories up and not to be pleasant to people on the ground.
The biggest lesson learned with these spaces is they need to be actively managed and programmed. The city should absolutely not be responsible given their track record of being overextended on everything. If BAP or Ilus Davis had a well-funded conservancy they would be fine public spaces. This is the way.
I think bringing in a private operator for the convention center assets, which is done in many cities, was the right choice by Platt. Too bad the council killed that idea. Would have been great to have someone really pushing BAP use
I feel like they should open up this entire block for development instead of using this as a park.
One thing that has always stuck with me from Jane Jacobs Life and Death of Great American Cities is that a park is an embellished representation of the area around it. And the area around this block isn't able to support the park as it is. On 3 sides of this park there are single use blocks (Convention Center, Hotel, Music Hall, and technically a 4th because on the east side the Muehlbach Hotel is the only active thing on the east side). There isn't enough activity around the park for the it to be anything but deserted 95% of the time. They had a coffee shop in BAP a long, long time ago, which was an actual smart idea to help bring people in, but even then there wasn't enough people around to support it.
If a park needs programming to not be deserted, it's a bad sign for the park - as no amount of programming will be able to keep it busy all of the time.
There needs to be more people around it or in it. Same for Ilus Davis Park and Washington Square Park. Its why I have really high hopes for the little park coming to 18th & Baltimore, and why I think adding apartments to the north side parking lot of Washington Square Park would be a really good idea.
KCDowntown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:31 pm
I feel like they should open up this entire block for development instead of using this as a park.
One thing that has always stuck with me from Jane Jacobs Life and Death of Great American Cities is that a park is an embellished representation of the area around it. And the area around this block isn't able to support the park as it is. On 3 sides of this park there are single use blocks (Convention Center, Hotel, Music Hall, and technically a 4th because on the east side the Muehlbach Hotel is the only active thing on the east side). There isn't enough activity around the park for the it to be anything but deserted 95% of the time. They had a coffee shop in BAP a long, long time ago, which was an actual smart idea to help bring people in, but even then there wasn't enough people around to support it.
If a park needs programming to not be deserted, it's a bad sign for the park - as no amount of programming will be able to keep it busy all of the time.
There needs to be more people around it or in it. Same for Ilus Davis Park and Washington Square Park. Its why I have really high hopes for the little park coming to 18th & Baltimore, and why I think adding apartments to the north side parking lot of Washington Square Park would be a really good idea.
KCDowntown
Public Plaza / outdoors space is a seemingly common convention center asset. I think if you put a urban-minded hotel on one side of this you could activate it while keeping the much needed plaza space.
langosta wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:44 pm
Public Plaza / outdoors space is a seemingly common convention center asset. I think if you put a urban-minded hotel on one side of this you could activate it while keeping the much needed plaza space.
That's a really good point, it is an asset that I've seen conventions use. Maybe if the cap can actually get off the ground, BAP wouldn't be necessary for that use.
langosta wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:25 pm
I think bringing in a private operator for the convention center assets, which is done in many cities, was the right choice by Platt. Too bad the council killed that idea. Would have been great to have someone really pushing BAP use
The BAP has had some use in the past for events. Gay Pride used it 2 or 3 times. Radio station KY-102 used it for an annual Elvis Day parade. Think it was World Team Tennis used it for 2 or 3 seasons. Conventions have used it for exhibit space. The main problem with the area around 1/2 of the surrounding area is dead area most of the time. Plus it has no connection to 12th St. Add to that because of weather it really isn't usable 3 to 4 months out of the year.
The city has tried over at least the last 40 years but it just isn't a space that is attractive to many users.
langosta wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:44 pm
Public Plaza / outdoors space is a seemingly common convention center asset. I think if you put a urban-minded hotel on one side of this you could activate it while keeping the much needed plaza space.
That's a really good point, it is an asset that I've seen conventions use. Maybe if the cap can actually get off the ground, BAP wouldn't be necessary for that use.
KCDowntown
I think it’s being right at the entrance of the CC is what makes it soo valuable but you could be right. Other cities with our weather have these or are building them so I think it’s kind of a required asset to a degree. I really suspect the city just lacks the ability to manage this (and other assets like CC itself) as well as a 3rd party could.
