Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:42 pm
When there's no one meandering around in the street even with the closure, and no event going on to draw crowds, it's a waste. I can understand during concerts at the Live Block and events at T-Mobile, but when neither are happening, it's pointless.
Under that logic, all streets in and around the P&L District should be closed from 5pm Friday until 10pm Sunday.
Sometimes a closure of Grand is warranted, but every weekend regardless if anything is happening is where I think we all have a problem.
You clearly haven't been on that street after 10pm on a Friday or Saturday when it was open? If you did, you'd remember the street car racing and donut-polooza.
It sucks they have to close it. I know they don't want to and are actively working on solutions but it's not their job to prevent idiots from being idiots. It is their job to ensure their guests are safe.
I haven't been on this forum in months, yet first thread I open I see everyone is still so quick to blame the wrong people while also making it clear they haven't thought this out. Besides keeping people safe, what other benefit is there to Cordish to close down Grand? Don't you all see it hurts them too? But I don't see any complaints about the city and PD's handling or mishandling of the dangerous street racing situation.
im2kull wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:00 pm
Another weekend long closure, with no events scheduled. I have no idea how a privately can get away with closing public streets for entire weekends at a time with no purpose, but it's a complete abuse of power and lack of accountability.
Is it just happening in the evening or is it an all-day closure?
All day, or in this instance all weekend. 72 hours.
It's all day though. If we use your measure, why isn't Pershing and Main closed down all day? Why isn't Crown Center and Union Station closing their adjacent streets? The irresponsible car racers do their shenanigans there as well. They also do it on extensive lengths of Gladstone and Benton boulevards in the Historic Northeast neighborhood. This includes the Concourse Park which is filled with teenagers and children during the day and evenings. Isn't their safety important as well?
If your complaint is with the PD, Cordish needs to take it up with Gov. Parson and his state police board, because City leaders have no control over the police department. It's the State Legislature that allows anyone to have guns without restriction, so police officers' time is almost entirely directed at daily gun violence and murders, and not dealing with street racing.
A good deal of the issue here is the serious understaffing of police officers. I agree the City needs to completely revamp Grand with traffic-calming design.
shaffe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:05 pm
Why can't we install some speed bumps along Grand? Would that not eliminate the street nonsense? Even if only between 13th and Truman it would also calm the traffic that is meant to use that street along with eliminating the nonsense.
Edit: They don't even need to be the annoying and aggressive types of speed bumps. Something like this should work just fine.
That is what raised crosswalks would do at the intersections. Essentially that, but level on top for ease of walking across.
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:29 pm
Yet again closed. Walked the area to ensure there were no niche events going on to justify it. Nothing. At all. How this is acceptable it beyond me.
FangKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:50 am
The only way to stop Cordish from abusing the privilege is for the public to complain to City Hall, or the media picks up on it and covers it negatively.
Good Luck! "City forces developer to open up street that's closed to prevent dangerous situations from injuring guests".
You really think Cordish wants to make it any harder for guests to get to their businesses and tenants? Blame the city, PD and idiots who want to endanger others safety.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:42 pm
When there's no one meandering around in the street even with the closure, and no event going on to draw crowds, it's a waste. I can understand during concerts at the Live Block and events at T-Mobile, but when neither are happening, it's pointless.
Under that logic, all streets in and around the P&L District should be closed from 5pm Friday until 10pm Sunday.
Sometimes a closure of Grand is warranted, but every weekend regardless if anything is happening is where I think we all have a problem.
You clearly haven't been on that street after 10pm on a Friday or Saturday when it was open? If you did, you'd remember the street car racing and donut-polooza.
It sucks they have to close it. I know they don't want to and are actively working on solutions but it's not their job to prevent idiots from being idiots. It is their job to ensure their guests are safe.
I haven't been on this forum in months, yet first thread I open I see everyone is still so quick to blame the wrong people while also making it clear they haven't thought this out. Besides keeping people safe, what other benefit is there to Cordish to close down Grand? Don't you all see it hurts them too? But I don't see any complaints about the city and PD's handling or mishandling of the dangerous street racing situation.
Is it just happening in the evening or is it an all-day closure?
All day, or in this instance all weekend. 72 hours.
It's all day though. If we use your measure, why isn't Pershing and Main closed down all day? Why isn't Crown Center and Union Station closing their adjacent streets? The irresponsible car racers do their shenanigans there as well. They also do it on extensive lengths of Gladstone and Benton boulevards in the Historic Northeast neighborhood. This includes the Concourse Park which is filled with teenagers and children during the day and evenings. Isn't their safety important as well?
If your complaint is with the PD, Cordish needs to take it up with Gov. Parson and his state police board, because City leaders have no control over the police department. It's the State Legislature that allows anyone to have guns without restriction, so police officers' time is almost entirely directed at daily gun violence and murders, and not dealing with street racing.
A good deal of the issue here is the serious understaffing of police officers. I agree the City needs to completely revamp Grand with traffic-calming design.
Why aren't all streets in and around P&L closed? It's not like this problem was specific to that one block. Folks are out right now, at 1:58 AM on a Tuesday ripping up and down Main, Walnut, and more. Ask me how I know. I'm watching it live. Shutting down ONE BLOCK of Grand, does NOTHING for public safety. It's a red herring if there ever was one.
I’ve had so many conversations with those in charge of this and I wish some of you could have those talks as well. Definitely a naive perspective from some in here.
Why is it closed all day opposed to just at night? Because of you open it up, people will park on Grand even with parking lanes coned off. You close it and now people are trapped inside the barriers. Also, manpower.
What events would be negatively impacted by permanent median. Big 12, Beerfest, Outlaw Days, Cornucopia (huge carnival), watch parties, st Jude’s run, Heartwalk and that’s just what I can think of but I’m sure I’m forgetting something.
Shutting down one block of grand does in fact do something for public safety as evidenced by the decrease of incident reports made by PNL public safety departments.
The developer has worked with the PD to address the issues and the city. This is the agreed upon solution at this time.
One more obvious statement. The developer relies on people being able to easily get to their property in order to spend money. You honestly think they want to do this? There’s very likely a negative financial impact happening directly correlated to these street closures when done strictly for safety.
However, nothing is more detrimental to an area like this than violence and people getting hurt or killed. That was going to happen if this wasn’t addressed. So here we are, for now. I know they’ve been working on changes and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it back open before you know it.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:34 am
I’ve had so many conversations with those in charge of this and I wish some of you could have those talks as well. Definitely a naive perspective from some in here.
Why is it closed all day opposed to just at night? Because of you open it up, people will park on Grand even with parking lanes coned off. You close it and now people are trapped inside the barriers. Also, manpower.
What events would be negatively impacted by permanent median. Big 12, Beerfest, Outlaw Days, Cornucopia (huge carnival), watch parties, st Jude’s run, Heartwalk and that’s just what I can think of but I’m sure I’m forgetting something.
Shutting down one block of grand does in fact do something for public safety as evidenced by the decrease of incident reports made by PNL public safety departments.
The developer has worked with the PD to address the issues and the city. This is the agreed upon solution at this time.
One more obvious statement. The developer relies on people being able to easily get to their property in order to spend money. You honestly think they want to do this? There’s very likely a negative financial impact happening directly correlated to these street closures when done strictly for safety.
However, nothing is more detrimental to an area like this than violence and people getting hurt or killed. That was going to happen if this wasn’t addressed. So here we are, for now. I know they’ve been working on changes and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it back open before you know it.
I understand where you're coming from, and am willing to listen. However, a private entity controlling access to a PUBLIC thoroughfare, and closing it off anytime they wish, at their whim, is a non-starter. How would you feel if MSNBC came to 2L (I'm assuming you still live there) and closed every single entry and exit, randomly, for however long they wanted to, at their pleasure? During this time you'd be unable to enter and exit the building, in case that wasn't clear. You would lose use of it. Would you accept that from MSNBC?
Such a dumb "solution" to the problem. Reminds me of Westport privatizing the streets. It didn't fix a thing but it sure did push the problem away from those bars front doors which was their only goal.
The lack of vision from City Hall on this is my biggest and maybe only real disappointment. The actual closing of the streets is just the result of that.
The impacts are far ranging. Bus service is impacted, less street parking for guests, confused drivers making uturns and wrong way turns, effort to close and reopen, overall looks bad to have orange barriers, Etc etc. Just overall a bad experience for all.
Having it closed all day when there no events happening is pure overreach and abuse of power. I do not mind when they close it off on FRI & SAT at night to help with crowd control and pedestrians. I get DCole's point about people being trapped inside when they park along the street. However they do not need to close off Grand at Truman on the South end. Why not close it off at 14th st basically closed off from 13th-14th, which is pretty much the main pedestrian area from KC Live.
Then post signs on the street about parking and the fact this area will be closed every FRI & SAT starting at 10pm running through 4am. Then maybe have a open lane 1 way for cabs & Ubers to get in and use the area like a cab stand?
Bottom line is there has to be some solutions because randomly closing off a city street for now reason for 72 hours is ridiculous.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:34 am
I’ve had so many conversations with those in charge of this and I wish some of you could have those talks as well. Definitely a naive perspective from some in here.
Why is it closed all day opposed to just at night? Because of you open it up, people will park on Grand even with parking lanes coned off. You close it and now people are trapped inside the barriers. Also, manpower.
What events would be negatively impacted by permanent median. Big 12, Beerfest, Outlaw Days, Cornucopia (huge carnival), watch parties, st Jude’s run, Heartwalk and that’s just what I can think of but I’m sure I’m forgetting something.
Shutting down one block of grand does in fact do something for public safety as evidenced by the decrease of incident reports made by PNL public safety departments.
The developer has worked with the PD to address the issues and the city. This is the agreed upon solution at this time.
One more obvious statement. The developer relies on people being able to easily get to their property in order to spend money. You honestly think they want to do this? There’s very likely a negative financial impact happening directly correlated to these street closures when done strictly for safety.
However, nothing is more detrimental to an area like this than violence and people getting hurt or killed. That was going to happen if this wasn’t addressed. So here we are, for now. I know they’ve been working on changes and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it back open before you know it.
I’m trying to think of another city that has car traffic and an arena, but doesn’t close their streets.
I’m thankful we have the top minds at cordish to work this one through. Along with our ever present police department.
It's essential to avoid a simplistic and lazy approach by solely blaming Cordish for the situation. They are operating within the framework provided by the city and PD. One contributing factor is the lack of sufficient staff in the KCPD to effectively patrol the area, which could make a significant difference. The CITY also appears to be struggling to find effective solutions to address the issues of street racing and disruptive motorcycle behavior.
As it has been pointed out numerous times before, Cordish is hesitant to implement measures that might inconvenience their existing guests while trying to navigate the challenges posed by public policy concerns and tire kickers. It becomes a delicate balance between ensuring the safety and comfort of their guests and responding to broader social concerns.
Finding a resolution to this complex issue requires collaboration and understanding between all stakeholders involved, including the city, law enforcement, and Cordish. A comprehensive approach that considers the safety of guests while also addressing the larger community concerns is crucial. Open dialogue and cooperation can help create a safer and more enjoyable environment for everyone involved. But, people will continue with the lazy argument and blame game.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:07 pm
Finding a resolution to this complex issue requires…
Respectfully, it isn’t a complex issue. The street doesn’t need to be closed for 72 hours straight. That’s it. It truly is as black and white as that. If they want to close it, sweet, go for it. Close it at the prescribed times that the live block begins its uptick in patronage, as that’s usually the time the sideshow dickheads come out, and reopen it before 6am the next morning. It isn’t hard, nor complex. It’s a lazy solution that negatively effects the downtown area.
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:57 pm
It isn’t a complex issue if you understand one fact: cordish and the city take the lazy way out.
My downtown friends will know that closing Grand hasn’t stopped the sideshows, they’ve stopped them next to cordish property.
If the goal was to push them further away from cordish, it’s a job well accomplished. But for those of us that live here I’d argue a paper tiger.
Cordish and the police department need to be better stewards of downtown. Everyone is better when Grand is a better street.
Yep, left P&L last night after a movie & Grand & a few other streets were closed on a Thursday night. I know it's Hot Country Nights but it isn't a real concert or anything. Feels funny about it because I feel like no one was really doing many side shows & everything down Southwest that I can hear every night til Cordish decided their suburban clientele didn't need that.
PRIVATE entities should NOT be closing PUBLIC streets without massive routing for approval, substantial reasoning, and fees being paid. Period.
My business can't close down Main Street at will, and neither should any other business. It's a public street. If anyone wants control then purchase the streets and make them part of your parcel.
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:38 am
Are we still thinking closure of Baltimore and Walnut for a pretty park managed by the private sector is a good idea?
Yes
Especially given the stewardship of parks in KC which is notoriously atrocious.
I'd note, since you're mocking others for having different opinions than you, that the streetcar you are a custodian of just was closed for three weeks.
Last edited by WoodDraw on Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes for me to. Would rather have bikes then cars. Time to start taking climate change seriously. Those of you that aren't conserned about this, stay in you car running the air conditioner while its 120 degrees in Kansas City an think about it. .
Maybe there's a drive up window you can get a cooling beverage so you don't have to deal with the environment and enjoy the gasoline powered cooling.
If you're not on the EDGE, you're taking up TOO MUCH ROOM!
