Widening I-70

[phuqueue]

MoDot put the cost of congestion on rural I-70 in the low-to-mid 30 millions of dollars pre-covid, and I'm not sure that a $35 million/year problem requires a $5.5 billion solution. And it's even worse than that since adding lanes isn't a real solution to congestion anyway (something even MoDot recognizes in their writeup: "A comprehensive look at congestion that goes beyond typical solutions of adding capacity is needed"). Rebuild the existing road if you must, but please don't expand it.

[Sani]

Adding lanes without restricting truck traffic is pointless, they will continue their current behavior in any added lanes.

It's standard for truck traffic to be restricted to the right two lanes on three-lane interstates.

I'm as much a believer in induced demand as anyone, and I think the proposal from about 15 years ago for separate truck-only express lanes plus a widened mainline are ridiculous, but so much of I-70 was built to 1950's standards. There are serious safety issues that could be addressed with an additional lane in each direction and improvements to design. See "The New I-64" in St. Louis for an example. They didn't widen Highway 40 from I-170 to Kingshighway, but they replaced a lot of tight ramps and removed or smoothed out hills that limited visibility in a lot of areas.

[FlippantCitizen]

I mean the safety issue from my perspective is free flowing traffic up to 85 mph where its totally inappropriate, on ramps/merge lanes too short, poor lighting, terrible culture of weaving/dangerous passing/reckless endangerment. I'm against mainlining more lanes of traffic into downtown. Like I said, if it is just an expansion to 3 lanes, and a lot of money goes to fund other transportation modes/priorities I could get behind a bargain. But I have no confidence in the state government or MoDot so this project is in the category of default skepticism for me.

[dukuboy1]

Having driven twice this year mainstay Interstates in the South: I24 from Nashville to Chattanooga, then I75 south all the way down into FL on my way to Orlando. Then the I65 corridor in Alabama connecting Montgomery & Birmingham. A lot of those stretches are 3 lanes, with truck traffic not allowed in the left lane. Those worked well and help with heavy traffic between main population centers. I75 had this as did stretches of I24. I think I70 would benefits a lot form 3 lanes like this between KC & STL, along with repaving existing lanes and some improvements.

God help anyone who has to drive on I65 from Montgomery to Birmingham. It is the worst, most congested POS interstate I have ever driven on. It is like sopped LA traffic during rush hour at all of hours of the day except maybe like from 1am-4am. It is only 2 lanes in each direction and an absolute nightmare.

[DColeKC]

The whole semi's passing and slowing down the left lane is frustrating. If you've never been inside a semi, you'll likely not have any sympathy for them and I wish more people would. It takes them miles to get up to speed and they've got a job to do.

I'd be all for adding a third lane and mandating semi's not be allowed. Also if cops would enforce left lane numb nuts who don't get the hell out of that lane once they've passed, that would be great!

[alejandro46]

I don't know why giving a massive public subsidy to car commuters gets anyone excited on this board. I70 has some dangerous design elements completely separate from the number of lanes. I fully support remedying them. But the city does not need one more lane mile of limited access highway. I mean holy shit guys.

And the longer we can delay any boondoggle projects like adding lanes to highways inside the metro, the more time we have to convince people there are better way. And sorry not sorry, I really don't care about anyone's car commute from Grain Valley or Liberty. It's too easy as it is.

The difference here is we are talking about connecting multiple metro areas, not an urban arterial, e.g. let's rebuild I-70 north loop w 3 lanes to match up to KS's Lewis and Clark Viaduct. That is a project that NEVER should have been approved. I don't think adding lanes is most of the time the answer/hardly ever, and hey here we still need to do more study and pick a path forward.

But after driving I70 many times to Columbia and occasionally to STL, it's a tough slog getting stuck behind passing trucks frequently. I always consider myself pro-urban and pro-good development even if I moved to the burbs, and no way should expand I-35 or I-29 for example within the city. Unfortunately, we cannot just mandate people take the train (which suffers from chronic underinvestment) and tolls have gotten rejected time and time again. I also consider this a seperate project from the "rebuid I-70," which is actually a seperate thread and MODOT is looking at the East Side I-70 route which is a scar across the city and way more shielding/buffering needs to be added in.

[GRID]

It's not just semis. Hell big trucks are hardly a problem at all compared to how non truckers drive. I have to use the damn truck lanes on the right to pass fucking idiots in cars that are driving in the fast lanes slower than the trucks up hills.

Till American police start enforcing basic lane etiquette, it's pretty much pointless to widen any highway in rural areas. Even out here in areas like the I-95 corridor which is probably the busiest rural interstate in the country, people just do not use the lanes properly. And that is a much bigger problem than trucks.

And while some truckers do get side by side for miles and are annoying, many times, it's cars they are passing and then the cars won't let them back over etc. People in this country simply do not know how to drive. Personally, I think truckers are about the only ones that do know how to drive despite the annoyances when they pass each other.

As a matter of fact, I always use the truck lanes on the Jersey Turnpike when going to and from NYC for this very reason. While the cars only lanes are typically a freaking chaotic mess.

[DColeKC]

Let's just hope they add more sex toy shops between KC and STL. I usually have sex toy money left over even after stopping at all of them. Could use 2 or 3 more.

[GRID]

Sex toys, fireworks and Jesus. You know when cross into Missouri! Most midwest states have one or maybe two of the three, but MO has them all! Plus MO has more billboards than most states.

[DColeKC]

Sex toys, fireworks and Jesus.

I think you just wrote a country song.

[dukuboy1]

Biggest issue with the a-holes in the left lane is they do not use cruise and the move over planning a pass but they have no speed regulation and then they have to get up to speed again to pass, and once they do linger too long to change back to right lane.

Cruise control, adaptive cruise features are amazing. Setting like a car length or so distance and then just allowing the vehicle to do the work and calculations is perfect. I once didn't touch my brake or accelerator from Odessa to Columbia. Just let the car do the work and I passed and kept the traffic flowing moving.

More people need to use these tools if they have them.

[FlippantCitizen]

Biggest issue with the a-holes in the left lane is they do not use cruise and the move over planning a pass but they have no speed regulation and then they have to get up to speed again to pass, and once they do linger too long to change back to right lane.

Cruise control, adaptive cruise features are amazing. Setting like a car length or so distance and then just allowing the vehicle to do the work and calculations is perfect. I once didn't touch my brake or accelerator from Odessa to Columbia. Just let the car do the work and I passed and kept the traffic flowing moving.

More people need to use these tools if they have them.

My impression of the passenger cars taking forever to pass is that they are using cruise control, and when passing a truck that's only going like 3-5 mph slower than them they don't bump it up to make the pass. That was just my theory though. Personally, I think being in a semi truck's blind spot longer than necessary is suicidal behavior so I always will accelerate a bit when passing to ensure it is quick, then promptly get back to the right.

[DColeKC]

Biggest issue with the a-holes in the left lane is they do not use cruise and the move over planning a pass but they have no speed regulation and then they have to get up to speed again to pass, and once they do linger too long to change back to right lane.

Cruise control, adaptive cruise features are amazing. Setting like a car length or so distance and then just allowing the vehicle to do the work and calculations is perfect. I once didn't touch my brake or accelerator from Odessa to Columbia. Just let the car do the work and I passed and kept the traffic flowing moving.

More people need to use these tools if they have them.

So true! This is the most upsetting thing to me when commuting. The constant speed fluctuations on many drivers has such a big overall impact. I set my cruise the first chance I get and my goal is to never disengage, which is almost always impossible. I can't handle it when someone passes me only to slow down after they get in front of me causing me to pass them again.

[daGOAT]

4 lanes seems a little excessive... Missouri doesn't handle alot of through traffic.

You should go drive I-70 sometime from KC to STL and back, then come revisit this post.

Do you know how many times I have made this trip? 4 lanes both ways would be extremely excessive, 3 lanes would suffice just fine. I travel on 4 lane highways on the 101 plenty in a county twice the size of the state of Missouri and get by perfectly. 4 lanes is basically telling people to take cars over the Missouri River Runner, which could use a spur to CoMo!

[Sani]

I'd be okay if, along with widening I-70 from two to three lanes and making associated safety improvements, we also funded more service for the Missouri River Runner and more sidings where needed to avoid delays. Of course, that sort of across-the-aisle, "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" mentality seems to have been replaced with a "fuck you, we're doing it my way" ideology.

[DColeKC]

I understand the support on here for rail but lets' be honest, vast majority of people in KC and STL have no interest in using rail between the two cities. I would utilize for a fun family trip but that's about it.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I understand the support on here for rail but lets' be honest, vast majority of people in KC and STL have no interest in using rail between the two cities. I would utilize for a fun family trip but that's about it.

That’s because it runs once a day…

[Sani]

I understand the support on here for rail but lets' be honest, vast majority of people in KC and STL have no interest in using rail between the two cities. I would utilize for a fun family trip but that's about it.

I'm not talking about 15-minute headways or anything ridiculous. I'm saying fund it so we can consistently get three trips per day. Lots of people use the mediocre service we have now, and making it reliable and scheduling additional departures will make it a better option for people who would like to ride it now but can't. I'd rather spend five hours relaxing on a train than four hours getting tailgated by semis at 90 mph and stopping at the world's smelliest rest areas to take a piss. (Seriously, we can't budget for some ventilation or air fresheners?)

[alejandro46]

I understand the support on here for rail but lets' be honest, vast majority of people in KC and STL have no interest in using rail between the two cities. I would utilize for a fun family trip but that's about it.

I'm not talking about 15-minute headways or anything ridiculous. I'm saying fund it so we can consistently get three trips per day. Lots of people use the mediocre service we have now, and making it reliable and scheduling additional departures will make it a better option for people who would like to ride it now but can't. I'd rather spend five hours relaxing on a train than four hours getting tailgated by semis at 90 mph and stopping at the world's smelliest rest areas to take a piss. (Seriously, we can't budget for some ventilation or air fresheners?)

For how close our cities are today, increased reliability and frequency would be a good deal especially if that would bring prices down.

[normalthings]

I understand the support on here for rail but lets' be honest, vast majority of people in KC and STL have no interest in using rail between the two cities. I would utilize for a fun family trip but that's about it.

That’s because it runs once a day…

I don’t know……. My anecdotal evidence is that most of my suburban family and friends would prefer to hop on at KC or Lees Summit if there was more frequency and they could get trip times down. 70-80mph with 4 daily trips would be a good goal.

Similarly the train to chicago is time competitive to driving but the lack of frequency makes it unworkable for many.