KCRag Forum

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:20 am

cityscenekc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:02 am Folks, the city-owned property at 12th and Broadway is the odds on favorite for an anticipated expansion of the KC Southern headquarters: https://cityscenekc.com/possible-kc-sou ... -on-track/

Would they (KCS) have to submit a proposal in response to the RFP? Or would the city just give it to them if none of the responses are worth a damn?

They would probably have to compete for the site since it's an RFP, however, they would have a high chance of prevailing I think for these reasons:

It is an expansion of their existing downtown headquarters. The City wouldn't want to risk Canadian Pacific Kansas City just simply moving all the existing and possibly new jobs to another location outside of downtown or KCMO.

It would be adding or retaining jobs downtown, which is crucial. Downtown cannot stand losing any more jobs or downtown headquarters.

KCS and DST have long invested downtown when few other parties did.

Their proposal would likely happen. They could most likely get financing that wouldn't fall through and set back the property for even more years. They would also be ready to go soon since the merger has occurred, and would need to prepare for transferring employees from Minneapolis.

KCS leadership has long had an influence on local politicians and organizations like the Downtown Council.

Kansas City is a railroad town and wouldn't do anything to risk losing a railroad headquarters.

I just hope it's a good proposal from KCS. Not a boring one. Can't be a "at least it's something" proposal. If it is and there are better options, shame on the city should it be selected. Could there be a waiver of the 130' height limit?

Mixed use office/apartments would probably work if KCS and the City really wish it to.

Getting back to 12th and Broadway being the likely site for a KC Southern expansion, from what I know, KC Southern would not be the actual developer, it would be the office tenant in whatever mixed-use project would be proposed there by a developer, much the way the 1400KC (future Blue Cross) building was done. City Manager Platt, who's a great fan of verticality and density, also said a larger scale project could be allowed there despite what the RFP says.

That would be a great spot to really go vertical. Sorely lacking over there. Would provide a real row of development with the new BAP apartment nearby. Hopefully would kick off more in that area back there.

Especially as you come across the highway there, it would be great to have a fresh new building to look at instead of...what's there currently.

Bid period closed on November 9th. Now we wait to see what comes of this site.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:52 pm My idea was two towers bisected by a Plaza that was surrounded by retail, restaurant and lobby spaces. An urban grocer was the intention at the corner of 12th and Broadway. A counter-style sandwich shop or similar would've faced the Plaza along with a great restaurant-bar concept I had thought up, another retail space would be available along Broadway for whatever else. The Plaza really would've been the focal point of the whole development because of how it would be. The two structures would've been nice too, but the plaza is one that I think would be great to see replicated elsewhere.

Platt said the vision for 12th and Broadway might be two towers with office and residential uses and a public plaza between the two. Construction on 12th and Broadway — and Barney Allis Plaza — could break ground this year, depending on the next few months.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... pdate.html

Interesting

It’s not me! I promise. Good to see someone else had a similar idea for a site plan.

Barney Allis potentially breaking ground this year is huge news.

CM says he wants the park to be accessible from all sides and include cafe's & office too.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:21 pm It’s not me! I promise. Good to see someone else had a similar idea for a site plan.

It's a great idea. Looking forward to seeing what is proposed for the site and hope it materializes

Stop with the plazas! Construct a building that stretches along Broadway from 11th to 12th streets with no break in the street wall (see both sides of Broadway between 8th and 9th streets for reference). The Building can be E-shaped.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.104647, ... 384!8i8192

It can be two buildings but they need to form a street wall. Widen the sidewalk along Broadway enough to accommodate outdoor seating for businesses. If there is a plaza, put it behind the building for tenants.

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:04 am Stop with the plazas! Construct a building that stretches along Broadway from 11th to 12th streets with no break in the street wall (see both sides of Broadway between 8th and 9th streets for reference). The Building can be E-shaped.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.104647, ... 384!8i8192

It can be two buildings but they need to form a street wall. Widen the sidewalk along Broadway enough to accommodate outdoor seating for businesses. If there is a plaza, put it behind the building for tenants.

I get what you're saying but my reasoning for wanting to do a plaza was to break up the massing some. I thought having a singular building would be too massive. I also wanted to create an area of activity by activating the plaza with retail/restaurants, a fountain, seating areas and so on. The reason for this was to maximize land for pedestrians since this area is dead as can be. Whether or not the winning developer runs with a plaza like this, I don't know but that's the only way I would do it.

I'd suggest a row of several buildings....such as what was originally on this very site.

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:04 am Stop with the plazas! Construct a building that stretches along Broadway from 11th to 12th streets with no break in the street wall (see both sides of Broadway between 8th and 9th streets for reference). The Building can be E-shaped.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.104647, ... 384!8i8192

It can be two buildings but they need to form a street wall. Widen the sidewalk along Broadway enough to accommodate outdoor seating for businesses. If there is a plaza, put it behind the building for tenants.

It’s harder to finance combined. I have tried

Can you give us some insight as to why its harder to finance combined?

kboish wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:18 pm Can you give us some insight as to why its harder to finance combined?

The more pieces you add (in a single structure), the smaller your pool of potential lenders and future buyers.

I would think two buildings would be easier to sell than one huge one. Especially if one was residential and one was office/retail. Two different markets. Many investors specialize in operating residential or office, but not both. Or the office building could be sold to a company seeking space, but they might not want to deal with leasing and maintaining the residential apartments. Same with residential. Those investors might not want to deal with the ups and downs of the office market. Residential would seem to be more stable.

However, I have no problem with it being one big building spanning the entire east side of the block.

Is Canadian Pacific/KCS still interesting in additional office space?

Wish they would move the Truman train car and pavilion from the west side of the block to the SW corner of 12th & Broadway. It sure would be visible to a lot more people.

It would be neat if it sat in a glass pavilion inside the building, visible from the street, and lit up at night.

I found a building I like for the corner of 12th and Broadway.

https://www.wdgarch.com/portfolio/proje ... e-building

Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3200+ ... 11n023n0s8