12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
kcjak
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:02 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by kcjak »

This location may not be the 'best' but any infill with residential in the central business district (or adjacent) is needed IMO. Why not use less-than-desirable locations like 12th/Broadway to help alleviate the lack (or perception thereof) of affordable housing and use the more prime locations for market-rate units that can charge higher rents?
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by GRID »

I think the location is fine. It's on the edge of a large residential district yet closer to Downtown's cultural attractions and retail.

I was just wondering what makes this project more enticing to developers vs them developing any other empty lot or dusting off old plans that have never been built. And you can't tell me that land downtown isn't easily available. I'm sure much is not in "friendly hands", but 80% of downtown KC is underdeveloped so developers can get property if they want it.

Anyway, I hope this goes through. Tens stories seems kind of small for a mixed use residential/office building on that lot though.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by normalthings »

GRID wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:26 am I think the location is fine. It's on the edge of a large residential district yet closer to Downtown's cultural attractions and retail.

I was just wondering what makes this project more enticing to developers vs them developing any other empty lot or dusting off old plans that have never been built. And you can't tell me that land downtown isn't easily available. I'm sure much is not in "friendly hands", but 80% of downtown KC is underdeveloped so developers can get property if they want it.

Anyway, I hope this goes through. Tens stories seems kind of small for a mixed use residential/office building on that lot though.
Tower Prop, Helzeberg, Vantrust, Blue Cross, are all non starters on selling.
daGOAT
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by daGOAT »

This site is pretty amazing actually. Quality Hill, specifically on W 12th St x Broadway Blvd only will benefit from this! Who knows maybe there will be enough of a population base to convince someone to re-open the corner store at W 11th x Broadway.
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by AlkaliAxel »

I've come around on this site- for the sole reason that it adds something decent looking to that God-awful looking area behind the convention center. It is like death when you are back there. Mostly because of the highway and surface lots.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7189
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by beautyfromashes »

My response to the RFP: Instead of trying to make BAP a park again and killing any real chance at adding population there, turn the entire rooftop of the convention center into a giant park. Build apartments on the 12th and Broadway site with views and connection directly to the park. The same for BAP with parking beneath. The park itself probably pays for itself with decreased utility costs at the convention center due to green roof.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:17 pm My response to the RFP: Instead of trying to make BAP a park again and killing any real chance at adding population there, turn the entire rooftop of the convention center into a giant park. Build apartments on the 12th and Broadway site with views and connection directly to the park. The same for BAP with parking beneath. The park itself probably pays for itself with decreased utility costs at the convention center due to green roof.
I am 100% on-board with rebuilding the convention center or at least the original phase. Glass walls, modern design, etc.

However, as I understand we want column free space and a rooftop park is going to need a lot of columns.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7189
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by beautyfromashes »

normalthings wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:39 pm I am 100% on-board with rebuilding the convention center or at least the original phase. Glass walls, modern design, etc.

However, as I understand we want column free space and a rooftop park is going to need a lot of columns.
Why would that be? It’s a couple inches of dirt and grass at the least and add the weight of tree planters and path stone at the worst? Surely the roof would hold that as is or we could put stronger cabling instead of columned support.
shinatoo
Ambassador
Posts: 7393
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by shinatoo »

beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:30 pm
normalthings wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:39 pm I am 100% on-board with rebuilding the convention center or at least the original phase. Glass walls, modern design, etc.

However, as I understand we want column free space and a rooftop park is going to need a lot of columns.
Why would that be? It’s a couple inches of dirt and grass at the least and add the weight of tree planters and path stone at the worst? Surely the roof would hold that as is or we could put stronger cabling instead of columned support.
People are heavy, rain is heavy, and would be retained in soil. The roof is probably rated to hold up to heavy snowfall but not a park AND heavy snowfall. Have to plan for the worst-case scenario if you don't want a repeat of the Kemper collapse.

But the location and architecture of our convention center are top of the list for worst facilities in our city. I would rebuild it in the east village or out at TSC. Then you have a reason to develop that area and add light rail.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7189
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by beautyfromashes »

I’d bet you could land a plane on the top of the building no problem. Union-made with heavy steel.
User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Overland Park, KS

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

shinatoo wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:17 am
beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:30 pm
normalthings wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:39 pm I am 100% on-board with rebuilding the convention center or at least the original phase. Glass walls, modern design, etc.

However, as I understand we want column free space and a rooftop park is going to need a lot of columns.
Why would that be? It’s a couple inches of dirt and grass at the least and add the weight of tree planters and path stone at the worst? Surely the roof would hold that as is or we could put stronger cabling instead of columned support.
People are heavy, rain is heavy, and would be retained in soil. The roof is probably rated to hold up to heavy snowfall but not a park AND heavy snowfall. Have to plan for the worst-case scenario if you don't want a repeat of the Kemper collapse.

But the location and architecture of our convention center are top of the list for worst facilities in our city. I would rebuild it in the east village or out at TSC. Then you have a reason to develop that area and add light rail.
Thoroughly disagree with this take
User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: West Plaza

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:41 pm
shinatoo wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:17 am
beautyfromashes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:30 pm
Why would that be? It’s a couple inches of dirt and grass at the least and add the weight of tree planters and path stone at the worst? Surely the roof would hold that as is or we could put stronger cabling instead of columned support.
People are heavy, rain is heavy, and would be retained in soil. The roof is probably rated to hold up to heavy snowfall but not a park AND heavy snowfall. Have to plan for the worst-case scenario if you don't want a repeat of the Kemper collapse.

But the location and architecture of our convention center are top of the list for worst facilities in our city. I would rebuild it in the east village or out at TSC. Then you have a reason to develop that area and add light rail.
Thoroughly disagree with this take
Yeah agreed. But especially the toxic take about TSC there. Almost vomited.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by normalthings »

CC is the biggest business in downtown behind the Feds
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Because I know developers and architects look at this forum for feedback and to get ideas, what sorts of things would you like to see included in a response to an RFP here? I know this is sort of limited since you can’t build a hotel, height limited, and you only have about 1 acre of buildable space, but dream on.

I’ll start - make the ground floor welcoming on most, or the entirety, of Broadway to make up for the blank wall of the convention center across the street. Try to reduce the presence of a parking podium. Try and make the design “friendly”. And also, no one should try to replicate Brinshore’s building at Barney Allis Plaza. While that’s an ideal size in more than one way, the design is more suitable for that side of downtown and it’s not that friendly of a design.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by FangKC »

The RFP shows two separate parcels. The question then is should it be developed as two separate projects, or one large one?

If Kansas City Southern/Canadian were to be involved, at least with the more southern parcel, it would also likely mean any development could be built all the way south to 13th Street and over the entrance to KCS's parking garage.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0992475 ... a=!3m1!1e3
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by GRID »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:53 pm Because I know developers and architects look at this forum for feedback and to get ideas, what sorts of things would you like to see included in a response to an RFP here? I know this is sort of limited since you can’t build a hotel, height limited, and you only have about 1 acre of buildable space, but dream on.

I’ll start - make the ground floor welcoming on most, or the entirety, of Broadway to make up for the blank wall of the convention center across the street. Try to reduce the presence of a parking podium. Try and make the design “friendly”. And also, no one should try to replicate Brinshore’s building at Barney Allis Plaza. While that’s an ideal size in more than one way, the design is more suitable for that side of downtown and it’s not that friendly of a design.
What is the height limit?
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by FangKC »

GRID wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:45 am
What is the height limit?
trexel94 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:29 pm The city has recently issued an RFP to develop two surface lots on 12th and Broadway.

Criteria
- Up to 130 ft tall
- Ideally walkable/transit friendly
- Floor area ratio around 10.
- Maximum parking 0.9 for every residential unit

The building sqft could be around 500k/516k

For office it must result in at least 33% new jobs
For residential, should result in around 20% of units set aside for affordable housing or 60% of median income.

Link to article
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... 0#cxrecs_s
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2912
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by TheLastGentleman »

FangKC wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:50 pm The RFP shows two separate parcels. The question then is should it be developed as two separate projects, or one large one?
The more buildings we can fit on a site, the better. My vote is two separate projects.
User avatar
Cratedigger
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:32 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by Cratedigger »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:47 am
FangKC wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:50 pm The RFP shows two separate parcels. The question then is should it be developed as two separate projects, or one large one?
The more buildings we can fit on a site, the better. My vote is two separate projects.
Why is that?
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2912
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: 12th and Broadway site: RFP for mixed use

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Cratedigger wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:06 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:47 am
FangKC wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:50 pm The RFP shows two separate parcels. The question then is should it be developed as two separate projects, or one large one?
The more buildings we can fit on a site, the better. My vote is two separate projects.
Why is that?
It produces a varied streetscape that has more opportunity to evolve piecemeal instead of being one single large development that has to change all at once. Strong Towns calls this "fine grained" vs "course grained" urbanism in the article "How to Fight Those "Boxy Buildings". It means a variety of building conditions, cost, ownership, ect, can exist closely together, which makes for lively and dynamic blocks and streets

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/202 ... -buildings

Image

VS

Image
Post Reply