KC Inferiority Complex?

[daGOAT]

Looking at historical population data between the two I can see why KC was considered "little sister", but I never heard anyone trash talk STL. Honestly the most negativity I ever heard about our Eastern counterpart came from Chicagoans, mostly because of my KC tattoo being so prominent when I brought people their beer. It always seemed like once someone made a comment on Kansas City (usually how they believed it was up-and-coming or they have family that had moved out there; one family even told me how strongly they believed KC was getting an NBA team in the next decade) a comment on St. Louis (generally about crime, baseball, or the lack of diversity) was strangely always sure to follow. I guess these are small local things that don't matter too much. Hell, here in Los Angeles I have encountered people who totally bag on San Francisco lol.

[earthling]

STL also has more public free stuff, more philanthropy. They're doing better than most rust belt cities but need to find a way to keep people and invest across the City. KC has a pretty decent pace with investments on E Side now and immigrants helped transform KCK into at least being stable. STL has momentum but what will it take to keep people? The political power is shifting to Southern MO because STL is shrinking (especially outmigration) and MO side of KC not enough to offset.

[daGOAT]

Cleveland and Detroit are building alot more momentum rn, though still struggling population wise their downtowns are much further along in redevelopment. I don't know why STL doesn't retain residents but they've their own momentum. One would think the two cities should work together to keep the state from becoming any more backwards politically. KC has learned to maneuver with it's Two States One City thing so I don't think it gets the negative impact from the state so honestly I can see it thriving in spite of the lack of state investment.

[AlkaliAxel]

Cleveland and Detroit are building alot more momentum rn, though still struggling population wise their downtowns are much further along in redevelopment. I don't know why STL doesn't retain residents but they've their own momentum. One would think the two cities should work together to keep the state from becoming any more backwards politically. KC has learned to maneuver with it's Two States One City thing so I don't think it gets the negative impact from the state so honestly I can see it thriving in spite of the lack of state investment.

KC metro pulls the strings in KS more than they do in MO. That’s why I don’t see KC trying to to work too hard on MO.

[FlippantCitizen]

I've spent basically no time in StL but I'm looking to change that this year. Maybe make a few weekend trips. The city has great history and tradition. I think whatever inferiority complex I've seen out of KC has been in consistent decline for most of my lifetime. The way I look at it is that MO will be healthier and more sane with two healthy and growing cities. So I'm always rooting for StL. Hope the feeling is mutual out there.

I did notice a difference in "vibes" between KC and StL people when I was going to summer camp as a kid. My mom spent some high school years in Columbia and she'll remark on the difference there between the KC people and the StL people to this day. FWIW after living in NYC for five years my definition of nice is completely different. Too nice just comes off as fake or contrived to me sometimes. KC can be too nice for my taste on occasion.

[daGOAT]

Yeah, some people are just nice to over-compensate for a lack of self-confidence. Personally, I say the people are chill and polite but not the niceness seems to come more from suburbanites and small-town folk. From my experience growing up in the inner city the streets will eat you alive and that seems to be the case in the other cities I have traveled in.
Fr, the difference between the two cities and the stereotypical personalities of their citizens is extremely similar to what I witnessed moving from Chicago to Los Angeles. Chicagoans typically assume when someone is overly friendly it may be fake or something to take advantage of. Angelenos look at it as proper etiquette and seem to attribute the attitudes of its residents to weather and mental health. Part of it also may be having more personal space which is also a consistent variable between St. Louis and Kansas City.
Ig it's all ultimately subjective. Showing manners in the hustle and bustle of urban life says alot about personal character though and is certainly something to aspire to.

[earthling]

The UrbanSTL people were pissed because a user who normally posts about KC stuff made a comment about how it's clear why development goes slow in St. Louis. That was in response to the Board of Adjustment pushing the Albion West End project approval back to the preservation board because of setback and facade rules that interfere with historic district standards. Someone (a transplant from KC) made a comment calling that user a troll (when that user is a friend of mine) and other comments about the KC vs STL stuff.

I swear, that forum is making my brain melt and shifting my opinions on St. Louis drastically. It's one of the reasons why I'm taking the legacy dollars and will invest in KC over St. Louis. Why should I invest in a city where people are constantly at odds with each other and willing to trash people (especially investors) who want to see the city better off?

I've found there's a victim mentality among St. Louisans. Honestly. They'll shit on themselves about literally anything then complain when someone from another city dares to mention a problem they've complained about before. It's unfortunate too. Wish they'd just get over it and realize that each city is different in it's own way and to complain about one shows a hint of jealously.

Some users of KCRag think things get out of hand here. Please. It's much more civilized here.

My observations on Kansas City in general is that there seems to be a great deal of civic pride and more adoption of the "Heart KC" things around town. I've also found that people in KC tend to be much nicer than people in St. Louis, the city tends to be cleaner, and suburbs feel denser (just my observation).

Great to have your investment dollars working in KC. Hope you can get momentum going with a continuous stream of KC urban core projects for decades.

[dukuboy1]

STL up to WWII was like the 5th largest city in the US. It was the biggest city and focal point of the US for many years as we expanded East to West. So it held a lot of cache for many years, and that about 50yr head start on KC historically kept it out front. But KC has been catching up since and now has passed it on some levels and catching up on others. But by the virtue of STL metro having about 600K more people still gives it an edge for services, amenities, etc. KC has some things better and STL has their own. No 25 yrs from now there may be a bigger shift to place KC in front. Got to keep the foot on the gas for sure and not rest on our laurels.

But I once explained the relationship of KC & STL as a family. The Older brother is Chicago, middle brother STL, and little brother KC. Older bro really does not care about the other 2, because they have their own thing going & doing what they need for them and achieving their success. The middle really wants the attention and praise from the older brother. SO much so they try to do everything that the older bro does, but maybe does not do it as well. Older bro can see this & either ignores it or calls them out. It causes hurt feelings for middle bro. Younger brother sees what their older brothers are doing and will pick & choose what they like & borrow what they do well and then put their own spin on it. We would love the praise & attention and we will take what we get but are also happy going our own way. Older brother likes that younger brother is carving out their own thing and respects that and it pisses off the middle brother to no end.

That's not 100% spot on accurate but if you been around and known people from these 3 cities you can see where I'm coming from

[AlkaliAxel]

I just always kind of felt StL looks more towards Chicago, and KC looks equally towards Denver & Chicago both. Just my take.

[daGOAT]

Believe it or not I would say California, specifically the Bay Area, has a huge impact on inner city culture in KC. Denver and Portland were definitely used frequently as examples of what a thriving urban core would look like though. The only real similarities between KC and Chicago are in architecture and the Parks & Blvd system.

Here's to Kansas City finding its identity and carving its own path, the way all great cities have.

[AlkaliAxel]

Believe it or not I would say California, specifically the Bay Area, has a huge impact on inner city culture in KC. Denver and Portland were definitely used frequently as examples of what a thriving urban core would look like though. The only real similarities between KC and Chicago are in architecture and the Parks & Blvd system.

^100% agree with that anlysis

[FlippantCitizen]

Could one of you elaborate on how the Bay Area influences us. I've never been there but it's not something that comes to mind at all when I think of cities KC looks to for urban ideas/culture.

[daGOAT]

Mainly street culture. From accent, slang, fashion, street art, and car preference. Kansas City can very much be a tale of two cities between the opposite sides of Troost and alot of Bay Area rappers (and gangsters) made their mark on the city for sure. It's actually kind of an interesting history many underground California rappers in the 90's were able to sell records in KC and so some of them would shoutout the city on songs, hats, and videos. I guess when you consider how St. Louis and Chicago ignored us as a "peer" it makes even more sense why the culture would become significant in some of the cities more notorious neighborhoods. It isn't very relevant to our urban renaissance and the only comparison between KC and SF or LA would be the inclusion of hills and long streets lined with bungalows. Ig LA and KC both growing around a streetcar system gives it a similar spread out feeling.

[FlippantCitizen]

Mainly street culture. From accent, slang, fashion, street art, and car preference. Kansas City can very much be a tale of two cities between the opposite sides of Troost and alot of Bay Area rappers (and gangsters) made their mark on the city for sure. It's actually kind of an interesting history many underground California rappers in the 90's were able to sell records in KC and so some of them would shoutout the city on songs, hats, and videos. I guess when you consider how St. Louis and Chicago ignored us as a "peer" it makes even more sense why the culture would become significant in some of the cities more notorious neighborhoods. It isn't very relevant to our urban renaissance and the only comparison between KC and SF or LA would be the inclusion of hills and long streets lined with bungalows. Ig LA and KC both growing around a streetcar system gives it a similar spread out feeling.

I see that. The slang and accent around here mirrors West Coast pretty strongly. Definitely not taking that influence from the East Coast. I'm pretty ignorant of California. Only been to San Diego once for a wedding. Never been to LA, Bay Area.

[daGOAT]

It's kind of why I love KC so much, it's a very unique place that never fails to surprise me. If you ever get the chance SF is very much worth the trip an absolute gem of a city despite its issues. LA is much more of an acquired taste, and I'm never surprised when people don't care for it lol.

[FlippantCitizen]

It's kind of why I love KC so much, it's a very unique place that never fails to surprise me. If you ever get the chance SF is very much worth the trip an absolute gem of a city despite its issues. LA is much more of an acquired taste, and I'm never surprised when people don't care for it lol.

Yeah I want to get out there. I had some college friends from the Bay Area who floated back that way so it would be a good excuse to go visit them. The more I think about it the more I get what you are saying. Like the music, clothes, street art here is just a lot different from Brooklyn and and I get the sense we are more culturally tied into the West Coast at this point. My brother went west for school (just to Colorado) and he has a completely different sensibility about music and slang than anyone I was around on the East Coast. Lots of his friends are the same even if they didn't leave for school. He has a ton of friends in California and is going out there all the time.

[AlkaliAxel]

He makes a good point with the streetcar culture. I couldn’t put my finger on that before but I see it now

[FangKC]

One has to keep in mind that the population of the City of St. Louis has declined by 550,000 in the last 70 years. That's more people than KCMO has ever had in its' history. At most, KCMO lost 71,000 people during the boom of its' suburbs. It's made all that back and now has more residents than it ever has. In the Northland alone, the Shoal Creek area is expected to add 70,000 residents in the future.

Imagine if every single resident of KCMO suddenly disappeared, the impact it would have on the Metro itself. That is what happened to St. Louis -- just over a longer time.

That difference takes a psychological toll on a city, and even though the STL Metro is larger than ours, that trauma bleeds out into the minds of its' suburban residents as well. It affects their perception of themselves and others. Kansas City only had about 20 years of losing population before it started growing back again. St. Louis has continued losing population for the past 60 years.

I don't know why a city like St. Louis languishes, and Nashville is a boomtown. The climate is not that markedly different. They are both on rivers. Both have a decent universities. Is it because Nashville is a capital city?

St. Louis has a lot of great architecture in its' downtown.

[earthling]

I've posted before that my brother in law, who has lived in STL entire life, sells industrial supply around Midwest traveling around industrial plants. He said that in STL when shit hits the fan many run around like chicken with head cutoff looking for overly complex solutions to catch the flying shit. In laid back KC, they simply unplug the fan.

Maybe the issue with STL is they are stuck in a loop of patching over problems than in a position to remove the core problems. And the cliquey attitudes and other social boundaries don't help with keeping people either. My two STL sisters seem to be often trapped in social expectations.

[daGOAT]

Nashville booms because Tennessee is inviting to corporations. Missouri is borderline hostile and has a huge crime problem. Its sad because there are plenty of educated people in Missouri but the state government does zero favors to its cities. I think another problem St. Louis has is all their Fortune 500 Companies are in Clayton and one of its wo universities is in University City. This does nothing for the city itself. Add Detroit levels of crime and poverty. Insane segregation, come on what city besides St. Louis doesn't have Mexicans at this point lol. DTSTL is like scattered islands of entertainment surrounded by warehouses and parking lots where neighborhoods used to be. The Great Divorce insured the city would see no benefit from county. As far as superior attitude? Idk but I am always surprised how natives seem oblivious to the problems of that metro whether through ignorance or pride. Trust me the number of people that believe St. Louis County is still growing boggles my mind, its been stagnant for 30 years at this point.